Talk:Afterlife

Contents

1 Page Identity 2 POV on Afterlife 3 ChaTo Reorganization 4 JW POV 5 Link suggestions

Page Identity

Should this page be redirected to eschatology, or vice-versa? Or should we develop these entries separately? RK

I think they're distinct topics. 'Afterlife' should address what happens to an individual when they die, if anything. 'Eschatology' should describe what a religion thinks will happen at or near the end of time, or the end of the current age. I think it means study of last things. Sure there may be some overlap, but there needn't be that much. --Wesley

Absolutely right, Wesley. And "Afterlife" is perfectly non-specific as to where: Hesperides Underworld Tartarus Hades Sheol Paradise Heaven Hell... "Proofs" of an afterlife are tiresome for rationalists to read and just ignite Odium theologicum, but the minutiae of what is believed are illuminating for every culture. Wetman 22:52, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Wetman, it is indeed tiresome to read proofs. And even in a believer it can ignite Odium theologicum. Citing proof texts to support a particular POV is fruitless. But making available facts is most fruitful. Of course I am interested in what a Buddhist or a Catholic believes about life and afterlife, but I am equally and simultaneously interested in getting some NPOV facts to help me ascertain whether it is just so much speculation, or whether it is a synthesis of real experiences. We do need evidences and factual proofs--not as lined up by partisans to shore up their theology, but as aids in sifting the ludicrous from the impressive. Tom (hawstom) 18:02, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

I had a hard time myself feeling intuitive about Eschatology being used as a superset for Afterlife. But it is so described here, and apparently eschatologists do include afterlife within the purview of their studies. I do think we should not try to indicate that the connection is any more that a tenuous one. My core question is whether Afterlife is the right article under which to organize all such articles. I really can't think of a better one, with only Underworld and Eternity coming close. Which do you think works best as a hub for the subject? Tom (hawstom) 17:15, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Please take a look at the Underworld article. The Underworld article has a mile-long list of beliefs on afterlife. If this article can refer to Underworld, then this article can trim the specific religions and become more strictly an explanation of modern generic concepts of afterlife, its beliefs and skepticisms. Or possibly this article can become very short and mostly just refer to other articles. Tom (hawstom) 18:50, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

POV on Afterlife

The recently added external links are all 'proving' that life after death exists. Does anyone have any good balancing links? --Delirium 21:07 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

No. But there is a reason why there aren't. Historians don't tackle this issue, which exists only within the cult. Historians describe the cult, its rituals, its literature etc and its effects on human behavior. Justification is not part of real history, it its part of apologetics, within theology. For comparisons, read Talk:Historicity of Jesus Christ.Wetman 22:52, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

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The pink elephant that is being avoided here, perhaps out of diplomacy, is the immense body of tradition and testimony on the afterlife from all times, places, faiths, and cultures. In some article there ought to be a discussion, based of course on the scientific methods of good scholarship, on what the preponderance of evidence indicates regarding afterlife, eternity, or heaven. If necessary, the focus could be on more recent testimony, with comparison to ancient and recent traditions to round out a likely picture of an actual experience and realm that has been experienced and described repeatedly for millenia. On television tonight, I heard the outrageous statement from Bill Moyer that "we have no firsthand accounts of what death is like." Wikipedia should address that ostrich mindset, not as a matter of faith, but of science. Hawstom 07:08, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

To describe the way cultures have shown themselves that an afterlife exists, that's the actual substance of the entry here. Leave the "proofs" for another day. Or enter them at Apologetics.Wetman 22:52, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

ChaTo Reorganization

I don't know that your reorgianization is an improvement. In particular, you have split up the reward/punishment section from the reincarnation section, while leaving some important transitional language only in one section. You may be headed toward some brilliant reworking, but please don't forget to finsh what you have started. Tom (hawstom) 18:32, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I think there are two views of afterlife: either it is a DIFFERENT life as in heaven or hell, as in the western tradition, or it is another NORMAL life, as in the reincarnation. Those two views should be separated. Maybe the paragraph ordering is not right, but I think presenting both views separated is a good starting point for this article. I have not had too much time to research in this subject, but this is a colaborative project, so anyone can edit the page and add more information: go ahead and do it if you want. My recommendation is just to keep these two sub-topics separated. ChaTo 27 Apr 2004.

I like your recent work :-). I hope to see more of it. And I hope to work with you to harmonize/organize this issue among various articles. Tom (hawstom) 02:58, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

"Compare and contrast" is always the right approach. That authentic NPOV. Wetman 22:52, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

JW POV

I am not sure how/where the JW point of view on afterlife (namely that there is none) can fit in this article. I have reversion aversion, so I am going to leave for now. But it needs to be fixed by the editor who added it to the Rewards/Punishments section. Tom - Talk 21:26, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Link suggestions

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