Talk:Zapatista Army of National Liberation
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First version... style corrections are most welcome as I am not a native English speaker... thanks! -- User:Jose Icaza
Is Subcommandante Marcos actually the leader of the EZLN? -- Tzartzam
Yes he is Tzartzam. Actually he declares himself to be subcommander "because my real commander is the people" --Jose Icaza
- Actually, no he isn't. The Zapatistas have an elaborate organisational structure, and Marcos is not the leader. Yes, he's the public face (ski mask?) of the Zapatistas, and articulates to the rest of the world what they're all about. But read some about how the Zapatistas make decisions - Marcos' voice is just one of many in that process. Graft 14:40 Nov 2, 2002 (UTC)
Why not make the title of this Zapatista Army of National Liberation or EZLN or Zapatistas?
- It now is. Something seperate, mainly from here, can be moved to the uprising page; a chronology & stuff. I have quite a bit about that in Our Word is Our Weapon, which is available for noncommercial use.
- I changed "Indians" to "indigenous" in most instances; that's how it's been translated in Our Word is Our Weapon, and I agree. -- Sam
- Sam: be careful. "Free for noncommercial use" is not free enough to be included in Wikipedia. Even if Wikipedia is a non-commercial entity, it is licensed under the GFDL, and that means that anybody can make a commercial redistribution of it. We could not truthfully license our material under the GFDL if we included "free for noncommercial use" material in our articles. Of course, we can use it as a source... DanKeshet
Dates?
From the article:
- President Vicente Fox Quesada sent the so-called COCOPA Law (in reality constitutional changes) to Congress on his first day of government (January 2, 2001),
But VFQ was sworn in on 1 December 2000. So one half of that line is wrong. Which one? –User:Hajor 23:51, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- You´re right, I fixed it. Asereje 06:24, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Isn't the correct Spanish "Basta ya!" with an upside down exclamation point in front of "Basta." Not "Ya basta" as in the article. I can't find my notes on how to make an upside down exclamation point right now. As far as word order is concerned, I've always heard "Basta ya."
- Err... i've always seen it "ya basta!" There's even an organisation that named itself Ya Basta! after the Zapatista slogan. Graft 14:51, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- "ˇYa basta!" is right in this context, plus it's what the EZLN uses. Gramatically, you'd use "Basta ya..." if you were going on to specify what you're protesting: "ˇBasta ya de neoliberalismo!" for example. Good comment on the exclamation marks, too: I'll go into the article and insert them. –User:Hajor 15:20, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- Whatever happened to Comandante Cero (Commander Zero)? Was he a computer educated guy who thought he was numero uno? He started counting at zero instead of one. <g>
PS: I see that the ITA in Spain uses "Basta ya!" Are you sure Comandante Marcos is so highly educated? Just kidding. I've heard him speak and he sounds very educated.
The Mexican singer "Ana Barbara" sings a currently popular song entitled "Basta ya!"
Keep in mind that for the vast majority of Zapatistas in Chiapas, Spanish is their second language--indigenous Mayan dialects are their first language. Add to that a lack of educational opportunities and poverty (some of the reasons for the uprising), and you will sometimes get less than perfect grammar and seemingly simplistic language (like the use of "mal gobierno"-bad government, to describe the Mexican authorities).
The article is correct. The Zapatistas use "Ya Basta!", not "Basta Ya!" (with the respective upside down exclamation marks). To be honest I don't know if that is the grammatically correct way to say it, but this is commonly used in everyday talk(not only as a slogan). Besides, grammar doesn't really matter in this case!
Ya basta is the correct way to use Spanish, basta ya would be more of an admonishment and ya is put in front of many Spanish verbs, ya vengo, ya está, etc etc, --SqueakBox 16:19, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
I find the argument about indigenous people's Spanish a rather spurious red herring. My (admittedly limited) experience is these indigenous people make different Spanish mistakes than do English speakers. Many Spanish speaking people also don't have grammatically perfect Spanish, much like many English speaking people (eg I could of done it); but they all, indigenous included (with enough exposure) know enough to know the norm is ya basta, and basta ya is only used to emphasise the ya, just as non Native English speakers know you say "just a minute" not "a minute just". It is the English speakers here who are making the mistake; don't blame your mistakes on the people of Chiapas, please. What is wrong with "mal gobierno"?
History section in question.
From what I've read the rebellion started January 1 1994 not January 2, and thus the same day as NAFTA. I've also read that they took control of six towns, not five and several cattle ranches. And finally, I've read that the cease fire was declared unilaterally by the Zapatistas, not Gortari. This is all from Our Word is Our Weapon, admittedly a biased source, but what is the source for these other points of view? -JMT
- I've always heard 1/1/94 as well. Unless somebody pipes up with a citation, please fix the section and include a citation to your source, so that in the event somebody comes back with a different source later, we can go back to sources more easily. Thanks! DanKeshet 03:45, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
- Also, I'd read (In First world, ha ha ha! perhaps), that the timing w/regard to NAFTA was pretty coincidental. They wanted the cover of a holiday (government soldiers and policeman merry-making, etc.) and New Year's was the one that fit their timeframe. NAFTA was just icing, IIRC. DanKeshet 03:48, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the last communique made on the 19th of June 2005? I just added something a few hours ago and someone deleted it. If it was deleted because I didn't do a good job or the grammer was bad then just correct it, don't delete it.