Talk:Wolverine (comics)

"I don't like how it was made clear before my correction that Wolverine is not immortal. In Wolverine #175 and #176 Wolverine dies and then is revived. In the currently unfinished Venom mini-series Wolverine survives an atomic bomb, and on many, many occasions he has been set on fire or bled profussaly."

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Contents

1 "superhuman powers" 2 Claws: bone or adamantium? 3 Anti Hero Stuff. 4 Adamantium Inconsistencies 5 Anti-Heroes 6 History

"superhuman powers"

I've just cleaned up this section's factual innaccuracies and redundancy. There may be a lot I've missed.

According to the latest edit, his claws can cut through "some" types of metal? It's always been my understanding that they can, as the article previously stated, cut through pretty much anything. I also hadn't heard that the curvature keeps them sharp. Could the latest editor please provide sources? Thanks. LizardWizard 03:15, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

The claws themselves can cut through anything if Wolverine can supply enough force. Given that he's not superhumanly strong, that's a notable limitation.

And isn't the SP section getting a bit long here? There's a lot of redundant/not needed information, especially with the Handbook-derived numbers, which are crap and always have been crap, given that no writer thinks "hang about, I better check that the Handbook says he can do this" before writing a scene.

Come to think of it, anyone got the Handbooks handy? This stuff looks like potential copyvio... SoM 18:01, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well, it would kind of make sense that the Adamantium enhances the curvature of Wolverine's claws. Let's see...Wolverine encountered the Hulk in the Savage Land after the Adamantium had been leeched from his bones by Magneto, I believe the issue was Incredible Hulk #455. I'm not completely certain if that's the issue but I do know that it was in the #450's. Anyhow, his bone claws were incapable of penetrating the Hulk's hide. However, in Incredible Hulk #340 Wolverine's claws were infused with Adamantium and went through the Hulk as if he were made of butter. Another example of that would be Wolverine #145. During an issue of the "Secret Wars" storyline that took place in 1980 I believe, Wolverine's Adamantium claws were able to slice the Silver Surfer wide open. During the recent Thor storyline where Thor, empowered by the Odinpower, and the Asgardians were in control of Earth, Wolverine's Adamantium claws cut out Thor's left eye and sliced his left arm clean off. Ummm...let's see....I believe that it was in Fantastic four #170 that Wolverine's Adamantium claws, easily, slashed the Thing across the face. The Thing wore a kind of hood over his face for several issues after that until the slash wounds were healed. As far as materials go, I've seen Wolverine's Adamantium claws cut any solid material ever put before them. The Sentinels are composed of highly durable materials, some plastics and metals, but they've never proven much of a problem, nor has Iron Man's armor, nor have various types of blades and guns, etc. The only material that I've observed to be resistant to Wolverine's claws is Adamantium itself

All these individuals are some of the physically toughest in the Marvel Universe. Their bodies are much much tougher, especially the Hulk and the Surfer, than conventional materials and it's doubtful that Wolverine's bone claws could cause much, if any, damage to them.

As far as Wolverine possessing, or not possessing, superhuman strength, that's a matter that can be easily debated. I personally believe he possesses some degree of enhanced strength, with the Adamantium-infused skeleton. In the first issue of his monthly comic book series back in 1988, Wolverine lifted what appears to be at least a half dozen men above his head and supports their weight, with only one arm. Now, if each one of those men weighs somewhere between 150 and 200 pounds, that would indicate that Wolverine is supporting somewhere between 900 and 1,200 pounds on one arm. During the late 90's, there was a Wolverine one shot titled "Wolverine: Black Rio". Wolverine was captured and chained to a wall by a vampire female named Ezra. Wolverine ripped the chains out of the wall before going on to overpower her.

Granted, demonstrations of any degree of superhuman strength from Wolverine is extremely rare, mostly because he relies on physical toughness, ferocity, and skill rather than strength, kinda like Sabretooth. Wolverine is no great powerhouse, but I feel he's stronger than lots of readers often believe. Thanks for listening to me ramble, this is a lotta fun. :)

I wouldn't be surprised if most or all of the anon-added "Superhuman Powers" sections are directly copied from a Handbook or Marvel Encyclopedia. I've reverted several such additions and rewritten the relevant sections so as to not be actual or potential copyvios. -Sean Curtin 01:46, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Trimmed it down substantially, while keeping most of the info SoM 15:39, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Where you get the idea that all or most of the information I added necessarily had to be "directly copied" from the Handbooks, I don't know. You certainly didn't provide any reasoning for this quite serious accusation, and any reading of the Handbooks will show that very little of what I added was from them, and what little that was was rewritten in my own words, and with proper attribution, which makes it nowhere near anything resembling copyright violation, unless you're prone to simply making up your own definitions of copy vio. -Nightscream

For the record, if you look, that post predates your first edit - [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wolverine_%28comics%29&oldid=10784903) is the edit I was referring to. And it's considered rude to post as an anon if you have a ID already.

I (and other people) keep editing yours down because it's too long, unreadable and unencyclopediac. - SoM 17:03, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion as to the post. As for anonymity, I did not post anonymously on purporse. I signed up for an account, and assumed I was visible with my username. Wikipedia is not very user-friendly with respect to how to use its various utilities, or how to communicate to others, so I don't know why I wasn't visible as Nightscream. As for my additions, it is not too long, it is most certainly not "unreadable" and whether it is "unencyclopedic" is entirely a matter of your opinion. Encyclopedias should ideally contain as much pertinent information as possible, and that's all I did. The only people who may find it "unreadable" are illiterates who hate reading. Assertions of its length or other whimsical statements are entirely a matter of opinion. Wikipedia should diplay as much information as possible for those who want it. Not simply fit the tastes or vanities of one individual user. When I added a section on Alleged Continuity Problems to the "Star Trek Enterprise" page, it wasn't deleted; someone simply moved it to its own linked page. Discussions of the contradictions of Wolverine's healing factor or strength could've been dealt with thus, instead of with blatant censorship.

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Another strange aspect of Wolverine's powers and attributes can be found in the Ultimate X-Men series, where Ultimate Wolverine chops off Ultimate Sabretooth's head. How could he cut through an adamantium-laced neck with adamantium claws? (Ultimate X-Men Vol. 6 (Millar/ Kubert): Return of the King #26-33) Yet he could not cut through the adamantium bars on his cell in (Ultimate X-Men Vol. 1 (writer: Millar/ artist: Kubert): The Tomorrow People #1-6) User:Morpheus2004

Fairly obvious - he cut through the muscle, tendons, cartlege (sp?), etc holding the bones together. He wouldn't have to slice the bones themselves for it to work.

Oh, and please sign your posts on Talk pages in future, huh. - SoM 01:23, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Claws: bone or adamantium?

Are Wolverine's claws made of "the same dense bone as the rest of his skeleton," or are they adamantium? The description of the "Origin" comic implies that Wolverine was born with his claws or developed them naturally. Are they bone plated with adamantium? I imagine this whole thing may involve some retroconning... like his claws were initially concieved as an adamantium addition, but Origin made them bone. TomTheHand 17:48, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

That retcon came about long before Origin. There was a sort-of hint in Weapon X itself (the scientists are confused about the adamantium pooling in his forearms), and it's made 100% clear in Fatal Attractions when Magneto actually rips the metal from his body. He spent about 6 years (real time, not comic-time) with bone claws (& bone skeleton) before he got new metal for good. They're admantium-laced bone like the rest of his skeleton. SoM 17:57, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Anti Hero Stuff.

As far as I'm concerned, Wolverine is only one more Anti Hero. There have been anti heroes as far back as Batman, Batman himself being THE anti hero... For more examples, check out Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer or Tiger Mann; The Incredible Hulk is a glowing example of an anti hero.

Adamantium Inconsistencies

Wolverine being able to decapitate Sabretooth in Ultimate X-Men is another example of something extraorinary happening without any sort of explanation. Adamantium is the most durable material in the Marvel Universe. Period. In the mainstream Marvel Universe, Adamantium is the only substance that I've seen that Wolverine's Adamantium claws can't cut. Sabretooth being decapitated was probably just a mistake that happened because nobody checked things out. Adamantium can't hurt Adamantium. That's just how it's supposed to be. User:IRON^HAND

1. Ultimate Universe, not MU.
2. Millar established adamantium in the UU - ergo he could do whatever he wanted with it (and it was explicitly described as semi-indestructible (not that that makes any particular sense, but the intention that it's not completely indestructible is clear).
3. He probably cut through the stuff between/around the bones anyway.
4. Sign your posts. - SoM 17:41, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Anti-Heroes

To me, an anti-hero is somebody that can be just as easily labled a criminal as the criminals that he or she is against and will attack those criminals with lethal force if necessary. Wolverine is the definition of an anti-hero in comic books. From his appearance, to his speech, to his attitude, to his mannerisms, to his point of view on justice, he is the polar opposite of what a classic superhero is supposed to be. To me, an anti-hero is someone that believes and persues justice even when it conflicts with the acceptable law enforcment and judical practices. To them, simply because it's law doesn't make it justice.

Characters like Batman don't fit that same mold. Batman will not kill his opponents, despite the consequences he might face on down the line. Batman is practically endorsed by the Gotham City Police Department and the governments of DC Comics' version of Earth. Like Superman, Wonder Woman, and the other members of the Justice League of America, Batman is praised as a champion for truth and justice. True, he's not nearly as reveared as many of his fellow League members, but he's far more respected in his universe than Wolverine is in his.

An anti-hero could be considered another kind of villain, just depends on your point of view. In real life, some would consider a man like The Punisher to be a hero on a personal crusade against crime. Some would applaud his ultra-violent method of dealing with dangerous criminals that would as likely try to end his life, or the lives of innocent people, as to give him the time of day. Some would consider him to be a monster no better than the criminal element he wages war against, a violent psychopath that should be kept in a padded room for the rest of his life. The Punisher, Wolverine, Elektra, Lobo, Deadpool, and numerous others could be placed in this category. In comic books, any mentally unhinged individual can put on some unusual costume and spend his or her life fighting "evil", but only a certain few can descend to the same level as that "evil" and do whatever is necessary to take it out.

History

(From Marvel.com--perhaps some chap could make this not violate copyright?)

James Howlett, the mutant now known as Wolverine, was born into privilege in Alberta, Canada, during the late 19th century, the second son of John and Elizabeth Howlett. Young James' mother was distant and remote due to the untimely death of her first son. Growing up, the sickly James was close friends with the red-headed Rose, his companion and tutor, and "Dog," the son of the Howlett's cruel groundskeeper Thomas Logan.

Dog's growing obsession with Rose finally prompted him to attack her -- forcing James' father to fire Thomas, and evict him and Dog from their home on the Howlett estate. The groundskeeper and his son stole into the mansion the next night and attempted to convince Mrs. Howlett to leave with them. Apparently, Thomas and Elizabeth Howlett had been engaged in an ongoing affair. When John Howlett interrupted their discussion, Thomas shot and killed his former employer. At the shock of seeing his father murdered, James manifested his latent mutant abilities, and bone claws jutted from the back of each hand. The beast within the boy unleashed at last, James attacked and killed Thomas, and slashed Dog's face. Completely unhinged by the violence, Elizabeth took her own life. James suffered a severe breakdown; his mutant abilities "healed" his mind as well as his body, blocking all memories of his last months at the Howlett estate. Because Rose and James were blamed for the deaths at the mansion, she spirited him away to a British Columbia mining colony. Rose gave James the name "Logan," so that his real identity would remain unknown. The frail "Logan" grew into a strapping young man at the mine and became known for his strength and ferocity. He spent a great deal of time among the wolves in the nearby wilderness, discovering he had more in common with the wild beasts than his fellow man. Bullied incessantly, Logan acquired the nickname "Wolverine" thanks to his tenacity and refusal to back down from a challenge.

Logan's happiness at the camp came to an end when Dog tracked him down. Finally remembering the night of his father's death, Logan fought Dog savagely. During the struggle, Logan accidentally impaled Rose on his claws, killing her. Wracked by grief over the death of the woman he truly loved, he fled into the woods. Logan was not seen again for many years, but the legend of the man called Wolverine had begun. The rest of Logan's life is shrouded in mystery, peppered with half-truths and anecdotal reports of unconfirmed sightings. His healing factor seems to act against the effects of aging -- which would explain why, as a man of more than 120 years, he appears to be in his mid-30s. In the latter half of the 20th century, the Canadian government subjected Logan to a bizarre battery of experiments intended to forge the ultimate killing machine. Weapon X scientists grafted the indestructible metal adamantium to Logan's skeleton and bone claws, and introduced memory implants that shaped his past to suit their ends. Combined with the earlier effects of his healing factor, these false memories have made it impossible for Logan to discern fact from fiction when recalling his former life. He now knows little of his past, save that it was fraught with pain and loss. Wolverine was working as an operative for the Canadian government when he accepted Professor X's offer to join the X-Men. Logan chose to stay on partly due to his belief in Xavier's vision for the coexistence of humans and mutants, and partly because of his attraction to Jean Grey. During his time with the X-Men, Logan has worked to regain his lost memories, but virtually every answer leads him to even more new questions.

Although he would rarely admit it, Logan remains with the X-Men because he feels the team is the closest thing he has to a family in the world. Serving with the X-Men has given Logan what he had been missing for so long: a cause worth fighting for. Still somewhat uncontrollable and unpredictable in battle, and prone to an occasional berserker rage, Wolverine has proven to be a tremendous asset to the team; he continues to make his home in Xavier's mansion. Beneath his brutish exterior, Wolverine will always be the scared, insecure boy who lashed out at the world all those years ago, doomed never to make peace with his troubled past. Haunted by half-forgotten demons, he fights for those who can't fight for themselves -- kindred spirits, victims all.