Talk:Violence against Israelis/Archive 1
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Categorized by years
I think it looks better categorized by years (plus there are other subjects to cover - origins, history etc., and that page already looked crowded). --Uriyan
- Some studies give a considerably brighter picture, although stereotyping of Jews and Israel remains a problem. Further, Arabs still appear in some negative contexts in Israeli school textbooks, thereby enforcing negative stereotypes.
The atmosphere of intolerance and incitement predominant in Palestinian schools and media is very well known and documented. This begins with their textbooks (http://edume.org/reports/index.htm) and maps of Palestine (http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/images/HeadlinePics/palestine.jpg), and ends with the recent wave of suicide bombings, carried out by 16-year-olds. I would like to see a very serious, objective, verifiable report that would actually classify this atmosphere as "tolerable", and explain why, before I return this sentence back. As to the second part, show me a single Israeli textbook that would display Arabs negatively, because I haven't stumbled on any in my 10 years in Israeli schools. --Uriyan
Negative stereotypes
- Further, some claim that Arabs tend to appear mainly in negative contexts in Israeli school textbooks, thereby enforcing negative stereotypes. This conclusion was reached by Professor Daniel Bar-Tal of Tel Aviv University as well as other scholars (see [1] (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0999/9909019.html)).
First of all, this subject is irrelevant to the subject Terrorism against Israel, which is caused by Palestinian incitement, not Israeli. As to the matter itself, the data pointed at by this report seems very obscure to me. Indeed, 30 year old books might contain some questionable material. But - trust my word on that - all books that are 10 years old or less treat Arabs with remarkable respect. The only serious claim that I'd read so far is that they do not give a proper overview of political questions. I find it quite debatable whether political questions should find their way to school books. This I find fundamentally different from labeling the whole of Israel as Palestine in the Palestinian books, even if it is not accompanied by calls for violence. -- Uriyan July 17, 2002
- I have never heard anything about these inflammatory Palestinian textbooks anywhere. As it is today Palestine/Israel is a warzone and I find it very reasonable to doubt that they are anything but war propaganda.
- The links seemed to provide more doubt as PLO had their version of the story and USA/Israel their. --BL dated July 28, 2002
- The site I pointed out contains a list of questionable textbooks (http://edume.org/reports/1/toc.htm). What's so unreal about them? --Uri
Some textbooks
It is true that some textbooks, though only a minority, are full of bigotry. For instance, here is a quote from an Israeli textbook according to the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace:
"The Holy One, Blessed Be He, came to the Ishmaelites and asked them: 'Do you want to receive the Torah?' They said: 'What is written in it?' He said to them: 'Thou shalt not steal'. They said to Him: 'We cannot accept the Torah, it is difficult for us not to steal.' And so, the Holy One, Blessed Be He, went from nation to nation, and not one of them wanted to receive the Torah. When He went to the Jewish people, they immediately said: 'We will do and we will hear.'" (45, Everything in its Time, first-grade reader, 1995, pp. 233-234 --Tool July 28, 2002
Factual inaccuracy, not lack of NPOV
- Uh so what? The problem with the Palestinian books is not that they say that the Palestinian people is better (just about any nation's books state that this nation the paragon of creation), but that it also declares the whole of Israel as "Palestine", i.e. territories to be taken over from the inferior Jews. That's inacceptible. --Uri Jluy 28, 2002
Lack of academic integrity
- This is sad. What is the point of combing through tens of volumes of Midrash books to find this one sentence, other than to slander Jews? Frankly, this out-of-context quote is a lie. Unlike all the other faiths, Judaism is more pluralistic and open to other peoples than anyone else. The one sentence expressed here is not a majority view, and in the real world it is not taught by Jews to their children as a way of promoting hatred towards gentiles. In fact, religious schools in all the Jewish denominations go out of their way to teach that Jews can and should live in peace with gentile peoples. In stark contrast, Islamic religious texts do have many such hateful quotes specifically about Jews (and sometimes Christians). Worse, in practice we find that many Muslim schools do teach such texts in their public and private schools as a way to breed hatred and terrorism towards Jews. Apparently, using mainstream Islamic quotes to breed hatred is Ok by the person who posted this one out of context snippet? And it is Jews who cause hatred? I am disgusted by the lack of academic integrity here.
NPOV? What NPOV?
So let me get this straight - "Terrorism Against Israel" consists of this page and multiple sub-pages, broken down by date and individually named people. "Terrorism Against Palestinians" is covered as a single paragraph under "Terrorism Against Arabs". And this is defined as a "Neutral Point of View" by characterising any attack on an Israeli as terrorism, while characterising any attack on a Palestinian as...what? An unfortunate accident? Collateral damage?
- Terrorism against Palestinians has an article in its own right.
If you want to be "neutral" then name these pages "Violence against Israelis" and "Violence against Palestinians" and include *all* violence EVEN THE VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY THE IDF AND ISRAELI SETTLERS AGAINST PALESTINIANS. There are plenty of sources for violence on both sides - see [2] (http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Total_Casualties.asp) for what a more balanced approach can look like. Compare and contrast that with the Israeli propaganda which masquerades as neutral POV throughout this site.
- B'tselem a neutral source? LOL. It has a huge bias against the establihsment and in favor of the Palestinian anarchy. They might be even thinking that it's peace now since no war has been declared. --Uri
Please, people, drop this pretense of neutrality - it's insulting.
- Palestinians retort that it is legitimate to point out that Palestinians were expelled, their property confiscated and their villages razed or changed names in a manner designed to erase them from history.
Nobody is challenging that (as long as facts are set straight). It is illegitimate, however, to mark the whole Israel as "Palestine", to speak of Israelis in the past tense or to yearn for an Israeli-less Israel. --Uri