Talk:Temperature
|
|
| Contents |
Thermodynamics
Looking in here because it's mentioned on Peer Review. Not being much of a peer on questions of thermodynamics, I make only one fairly obvious comment: how should this relate to the Thermodynamics article? There seems to be a good deal of overlap, with perhaps a lot of detailed information here that could fit better in the other article. This one might take a seriously simple-minded approcach (not a pejorative term in a popular work), as it does in places, with an invitation to go to the more technical article for more technical information. Most of the section on the second-law definition would be a candidate for a transfer. Then again, maybe not. But surely the division of labor wants discussion. Dandrake 07:01, Aug 10, 2004 (UTC)
The natural degrees of temperature
Maybe we should include a section (or at least mention) on the temperature scale based on natural units (the gravitational constant, planck distance, speed of light). Since this degree (absolute zero at one end, infinant temperature at the other, considered the original temperature of the big bang) is too large, bringing it down by a factor of 32, we get degrees roughly 3 degrees farenheit apart. Natural units are thought to be more universal, and less arbitrary than conventional units (ie, 100 units between the point at which the vapor pressure of H2O reaches 101.3 kPa, and where it condenses, again only at 101.3 kPa), as they are based on physical constants. With this system, the temperature of freezing water comes to around 193 degrees, and room temperature to 208, and the boiling point to 264. If we fix a parallel system to the freezing point as in Kelvin and Celsius, we get room temperature to be 15 degrees, and boiling to be 71. These units could be called centigrade (discarded by the metric system), or degrees Planck.
On another note; this may be misunderstanding on my part, but it seems to me that temperature is just energy/volume, as it is the average kinetic energy. This seems to make sense, but no where, on the internet or in chemistry, have I ever heard this even contemplated. GWC 10:50 EST 25 Oct 2004
- It is the Heat that is an Job and hence an Energy. Changing the temperature of a mass (or of a volume) of a gas (or of an object) give a difference of the energy.
- Note that what can be measure is only difference of energy not energy. This difference of energy is proportional to the mass (or volume) to the difference of temperatura. The proportional factor (that dipends on the material) is called specific heat. That temperature and kinetic energy are related (and notabily in an direct way) is the result of the [kinetic theory of gas]], but this is true only for a gas (indeed only for an ideal gas). Themperature and work (or energy) and the corrispondiing units of measure, kelvin and joule, are related by the Boltzmann constant.
- Of course you can change the definition of the unit of measure to have the Boltzmann constant equal to one.
- This is related to the above discussion on natural unit (Since te natural unit sistem is not easy for who has not theorical physic studies, I suggest not to include this. It is an Enciclopedia not a book of advanced physics.) The problem of the connection (and the problem of therminology) between temperature and energy is similar to the one between mass and energy.
- If you do not understand the difference between temperature and heat (and heat is energy as shown by Joule experiments) consider the diference between electrical voltage and electrical current (this parallelism is not easy to see, indeed). AnyFile 13:50, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Explain Counterintuitiveness
In part of the dicussion this is said: "This average energy is independent of particle mass, which seems counterintuitive to many people. Although the temperature is related to the average kinetic energy of the particles in a gas, each particle has its own energy which may or may not correspond to the average." Perhaps an explanation of why this relationship exists would be useful? I'd be happy to write it, and so I'll do it here (in the discussion, so that if you like it you can just copy/paste). I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with the Wiki Markup for math, so you'll probably have to clean that up a bit but otherwise it should be ok. Right after the sentence about counter-intuitiveness, insert this:
However, after an examination of some basic physics equations it makes perfect sense. The second law of thermodynamics states that any two given systems when interacting with eachother will later reach the same average energy. Temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of a system. The formula for the kinetic energy of an object (in this case a molecule) is:
<math>K_E=1/2 m x v^2<math>
So a particle of greater mass (say a neon atom relative to a hydrogen molecule) will move slower than a lighter counterpart, but will have the same average energy. This average energy is independent of the mass because of the nature of a gas, all particles are in random motion with collisions with other gas molecules, solid objects that may be in the area and the container itself (if there is one). A visual illustration of this from Oklahoma State University (http://intro.chem.okstate.edu/1314F00/Laboratory/GLP.htm) makes the point more clear. Not all the particles in the container have the velocity, regardless of whether there are particles of more than one mass in the container, but the average kinetic energy is the same because of the ideal gas law. EagleFalconn 19:13, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
link requires subscription
The third link down in External Links requires a subscription to view the site.
Is there a policy against such links? SOP?
- I don't know about any policy (but I've been away from WP for a while). Anyway I could not reach the site either and I got a spyware warning. So I'll delete it and keep it here just in case someone disagrees. The link was:Nanotubes may have no 'temperature' (http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040816/full/040816-4.html). Also, something with "no temperature" sounds weird...--Nabla 23:29, 2005 Apr 28 (UTC)