Talk:Tantra

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No - see [1] (http://scheme.xcf.berkeley.edu/news/answers/magick/tantra/faq). "reproduction for profit or for non-electronic distribution prohibited without the express permission of the copyright holders."

Questions about tantra. Add your quistions and we will try to answer them in the article.

How do you learn to feel your spritual energies ?

Where/how can your find people who pratise tantra ?

What is the names of the tantra vedas. And what year are they from ?

Is there a good reason for writing the adjective as "tantrik" in this article and not "tantric"? Google suggests that the latter is much more common. Searches for the former spelling lead to an American phallic cult that does not seem to be representative of the main body of knowledge.

Solri 08:45 Jul 25, 2002 (PDT) I've changed to "tantric", though both spellings are common. If anything, I prefer "tantric" since it makes it obvious that we're dealing with an English adjective derived from the Sanskrit, not an actual Sanskrit word. I've revised the article extensively - I hope I haven't been too brutal.

Anonymous User : I am a new Wikipedia user. Since the Tantras are all Hindu shastras that are self-proclaimed followers of the Vedas, I have edited some of the page, including a reference by Woodroffe. It is obvious that whoever wrote this is much more aware of the Tantric offshoot known as Vajrayana Buddhism. IF you wish to give an accurate description of Tantra, than describing Yoga (foundationally a Hindu concept) and Tantra (the post-Vedic, nondualist (advaitin) Hindu yogins and Shiva-Shakti bhaktas) as they exist, and then giving a separate section on Vajrayana Buddhism, would be more accurate. For remember, it is entirely a Hindu concept that Shiva and Shakti are the dual, manifest principles of Para Shiva, while Vajrayana cleaves along different lines. In spite of Mahayana Buddhism artificial creation of 'wisdom beings' that are actually so many Hindu gods and goddesses, like Ma Tara (said to be another form of Ma Kali in the Chandi Path and the older Puranas), the Tantras of the Abhinava Gupta and other schools represent Shiva-Shakti worshippers, who are clearly Hindu and not Buddhist. So representing the bifurcated nature of Hindu and Buddhist schools, and then perhaps for the sake of Western readers, referring to the ridiculous 'American' schools, this article achieves better coherence.

In general, I do not disagree with the most of this - though the Tantras are all Hindu shastras - is factually inaccurate, and far too a broad generalisation. There are plenty of tantras which are not Hindu shastras at all. Take for example the Kalachakra, Guhyasamaja, Yamantaka, and even Heruka Chakrasamvara and Hevajra tantras; there are hundreds, if not thousands, more examples. The root tantras of e.g. Guhyasamaja -even according to modern scholars- go back to the early 5th to 7th century CE, whereas most Hindu tantric shastras are dated around the 11th - 13th century CE by most modern scholars. The Buddhist/Hindu origins debate will continue for a long time no doubt. Regarding WP, I consider the best option is to disambiguate the term. For, despite the best intentions of many practitioners and scholars, "Tantra" still means kinky Indian sex for most people. (20040302)

I find this quite funny: "According to John Woodroffe, the foremost scholar on Tantra". Sir John may have been one of the first Western scholars to be really interested and translated tantric texts, but the foremost of all - no. The foremost scholars of tantra have been and will be found in the traditional schools of tantra.

This article should discuss different schools of tantra: Kaula, Mishra and Samaya. There is very good article on topic of tantra by Swami Jnaneshvara (disciple of Swami Rama Tirtha) http://www.swamij.com/tantra.htm Also http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0050.htm reflects some light on the topic. --Arjuna 04:41, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Contents

1 Like to see two sections on this topic Hindu - Buddhist. 2 Tantra classification 3 Translator 4 Plagarism

Like to see two sections on this topic Hindu - Buddhist.

Hello! I would like to see this section on "Tantra" to be broken down into two sections! Hindu and Buddhist as there are diffenrences between them and as they belong to different religions. --Mitrapa 02:09, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)Mitrapa

I agree. Although there is some cultural cross-over, and certain Tantras are shared by both Buddhism and Hinduism, modern traditions differ wildy in interpretation and praxis. (20040302 09:32, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC))

Tantra classification

There are three types of Tantric Sex: White, Gray, and Black. White Tantra never ejaculates nor reaches orgasm in order to awaken consciousness. Gray Tantra elongates the sexual act, and sometimes concludes with orgasm/ejaculation, but without any longing towards awakening consciousness. Black Tantra always concludes with orgasm/ejaculation in order to awaken consciousness. It is said that White Tantra awakens consciousness to the absence of desire, while Black Tantra awakens consciousness into desire.

I am fairly well read on the topic of tantra and I have never seen this classification system. Is this from some neo-tantric writings? I'm pretty sure it is not a traditional classification scheme, and as such, needs to include some information about where this system is derived from or described. What is the source of these assertions? — Adityanath 15:41, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Seems a bit bogus to me. In my experience, "White/Black/Grey" are Western magical catagories. If you google "Tantra white black grey" stuff comes up, but it mostly seems to be Western appropriations of tantra...they equate tantra with alchemy. It doesn't match anything I've read about Hindu or Buddhist tantras. Perhaps there is a correlation with the triad relating to the three gunas, but then it should be White/Red/Black. I suspect that that paragraph would be better put under the New Age section unless you want to do a scholarly reconstruction of whatever truth might be hidden in the paragraph. Good luck; I'll be curious what you turn up. Emyth 21:05, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

Translator

I suspect the Mike Magee linked to in the article is a different Mike Magee to the one that translated this passage (if it isn't Sri Lokanath Maharaj as one website claims). But if anyone knows better please delete this comment. Shantavira 18:16, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

No, that is the right Mike Magee, for some period of time known as Lokanath. For more info on Mike and his relationship with Shri Gurudev Mahendranath, see Occult History of the Nath Order 1984-2003 (http://www.mahendranath.org/%7Ekapil/history03.html). Adityanath 04:26, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Plagarism

80.231.218.11 added a large section that was copied from http://sivasakti.com/articles/tantra/art25.html. I have removed this section, if anyone feels that this added useful content, pls let me know, we can work out some new text. S.N. Hillbrand 18:10, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

217.212.20.126 Added a bunch of stuff that seems off, not my article, thought I'd edit to let ya know something funny happened. kodemage--24.14.228.236 06:23, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That was inside of 80.231.218.11's plagarism and was already removed. What is your NPOV complaint?