Talk:Swinoujscie

Wik. The German name of Swinemünde is Swinemünde. It is not a "former" name.

S´winoujs´cie: German pages: 5 [1] (http://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_de&cr=&q=S%B4winoujs%B4cie&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1)

Swinemünde: German pages: 13,300 [2] (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Swinem%FCnde&btnG=Google+Search&lr=lang_de)

Furthermore, the English name also seems to be Swinemünde

S´winoujs´cie: English pages: 5 [3] (http://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_en&cr=&q=S%B4winoujs%B4cie&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1)

Swinemünde: English pages: 766 [4] (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Swinem%FCnde&btnG=Google+Search&lr=lang_en)

766-5 - you love ratios like that, huh? ;-)

-- Nico 17:46, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Real figures:

Swinoujscie 34,600
Swinemünde 15,000

--Wik 18:12, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

Ah, but Swinoujscie is certainly not the same name as S´winoujs´cie. Similarly is not Swinemunde the same name as Swinemünde. Nico 19:04, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

City population

source: Rocznik Statystyczny 1981, Główny Urząd Statystyczny, Warszawa 1981, Rok XLI
1960: 17.000 inbabitants
1970: 28.100 inbabitants
1975: 42.400 inbabitants
1980: 47.100 inbabitants

cc

Conflict

If the place is currently in Poland, it seems reasonable that the Polish name should be listed first. If it was formerly part of Germany, the German name should be mentioned, but not first. Does anyone disagree, and if so why? Wondering simply, -- Infrogmation 19:47, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I merely shifted them because known vandal User:Wik insists on adding 'former'. No problems with the current state. Jor 19:49, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

What is wrong with calling the German name 'German name'? A clarifier like 'former' or 'historic' is wrong, since it is still the name in German (and in most English texts). Jor 19:51, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No, it isn't. I posted the real figures above. --Wik 19:52, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

Take out the POLISH LANGUAGE results, and you end up with Nico's figures. Rather a difference, wouldn't you say? Call it whatever you like in the Polish Wikipedia, but stop trying to falsify history. Jor 19:54, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Nico's search on the Polish name doesn't prove anything, due to its use of spacing accents, which hardly pick up anything. I assume this is an oversight. If i search in .uk I get 33 for Swinemünde, 21 for Swinemunde, 4 for Swinemuende, and 268 for Swinoujscie. This demonstrates that the latter term is more used in UK web pages. You can see I have no agenda here - I was even involved in the move war to get Oder-Neisse line where it is now. Morwen 19:59, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

I'm not accusing you of an agenda, fwiw. Jor

Google.com figures:

• Swinemünde OR Swinemunde in English pages: 1340 [5] (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=swinem%C3%BCnde+OR+swinemunde&btnG=Google+Search&lr=lang_en)
• Świnoujście in English pages: 1,260 [6] (http://www.google.com/search?q=%C5%9Awinouj%C5%9Bcie&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&lr=lang_en&sa=X&oi=lrtip9)

Jor 20:07, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Why do you omit Swinoujscie in English pages? Which is 9,810. Again, this must be another oversight. Morwen 20:08, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

It is. I also left out various variant spellings of the German/English name, this is a simple search for the main names. Jor 20:09, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Why is 'Swinemunde' considered a main name, then, and not just a variant? I'm not sure this is being very consistent. The most frequently used name in English is Swinoujscie, which has nearly ten times as many hits in google as Swinemünde/Swinemunde. Even the form with the accents has as many hits as the German form, in English texts. I propose the wording 'Świnoujście, formerly Swinemünde.' As you say, what the German name is, is irrelevant on the English wikipedia. Morwen 20:14, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

ASCII does not include a ü character. Much software silently drops umlauts, or converts them to <char>e (which I did not search for). What is so wrong with the current form? Wik's revertionism implies there is some reason Swinemünde as a name is not acceptable, which I have yet to see him defend? Jor 20:17, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

ASCII doesn't contain a Ś character, either. I have nothing particular against the article in either of the states you are edit warring about. I am just trying to suggest compromises that might be acceptable to both sides? Since there seems to be little interest in this idea, I think I will go back to making maps of Libya. Morwen 20:21, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

If you can get Wik to accept a form without 'former', 'historic', 'ancient', 'fictional' or whatever else he wants to prefix the other name with, there is no more 'edit war'. I'd welcome a contribution by Wik to this article for once, instead of a revert or deletion.

I see Wik reverted yet again while I am typing this, I'm tired of it. Screw this, I've better things to do than try and fix Wik's vandalism. Jor 20:25, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I see Cartman's going home. And by the way, of course ASCII contains an ü character, otherwise you couldn't display it here without the &# code, which is required for Ś though. --Wik 20:34, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, ü is not in ASCII, which contains only characters 32 to 126. It is in ISO 8859-1 though, which is why we can use it. Morwen 20:37, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

That's extended ASCII. --Wik 20:42, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

In either case it is certain that Swinemünde as a name is still in use, and this 'historic' of 'former' is not wanted. I left out German, Dutch, etc. results from this search, as this is the ENGLISH wikipedia. Jor 20:09, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I agree with Morwen. The current English name seems to be Swinoujscie. However, the German name is surely Swinemünde, and it's not a "former German" name. Nico 08:53, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)