Talk:Rome

about redirecting Roma (empty): I saw it was linked by several articles, all pointing to the town, and vainly mentioned in the complete list.

Honestly I don't know about this god, but if it doesn't deserve a separate entry, we could perhaps redirect Rome to Roma.

hi
Gianfranco

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Found what's about: it is an allegory rethorically representing the symbolic personification of the State, first appeared in 269 BC in ... money (nummus - is it coins in english?), just like in Locri (Calabria) in 204 BC. I am now reading that external peoples might have given Roma divine attributes, but in my text this is only an hypothesis. Emphasising this allegory, temples were erected in Smirne (195 BC) and some sort of cult is reported in Ephesus, Sardi and Delo.

A confusion might be caused by the divinity of emperor: being Augustus a sort of demi-god, what was dedicated to him was a kind of religious celebration, partially directed on town's personality.

So Roma is not a god, but only an allegory.

I'm aware I make a huge use of your patience... :-)

"Roma" was a god decreed to exist by Augustus Ceasar early in his career as "Princeps Civitatis" (1st among citizens -- i.e. Emperor) as part of a propoganda campaign. In this way he deified the concept of Rome. Brilliant idea actually. Augustus built many temples with his Res Gestae (resume telling his subjects all his deeds) along side of inscriptions that popularized the new god Roma. Gypsies also call themselfs the "people of Roma" which does not have a connection with the Roman god. We will have to wait until the bug is fixed to make an article about it. maveric149

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The origin of the name "Rome" is unknown. The Greek origin, met with in some ancient writers, is not one of the favored ones currently. Among the theories, the root "Rum-" (as in "Ruminalis" for example), meaning "breast" and connected with the ROM-ulus/REMus story (and note, along with some ancient authors, that the word for wolf, "lupa", also meant "prostitute": the word survives, for example, in Lat. "lupanar", whorehouse).

It would be better either to ignore the name origin, or to lay them all out in detail. Bill 21:19, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents

1 Some criticisms 2 Zotvo and Favoald 3 Can anyone identify this site? 4 Peoples of Early Italy 5 Proposal of splitting 6 Moved

Some criticisms

What a mess. This article seems to have an awful lot of overlap of history stuff, and rather little about the city today. Like for instance, nowhere in the article does it tell us important things like what the population is.

All of the history should be consilidated into one section, or possibly put into its own article, Im sure the history of Rome could easily fill its own article. G-Man 22:27, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Zotvo and Favoald

Who are these people? Chalk it up to my ignorance maybe, but I've never heard of either one, and no Zotvo or Favoald (Favoaldo, Favoaldus) is mentioned by Bury, Gibbon, or Cotterill; they make no independent appearance online, either.

I frankly suspect a copyright trap in the original article -- what was the source of that article, anyway? I hope we don't have a copyvio here.

Bill 13:45, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I've been looking, but been completely unable to find independent reference to them on or off the Web. I've removed them. The history of the High Middle Ages, to which Zot and Fav are said to belong, is so obscure, that I suspect copyvio even more; and some of the English is such that I suspect translation from some other language as well. The person I thought was the original poster says he knows nothing about the subject, but did not address the question "Where did the text come from?": which further disturbs me. — Bill 18:42, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I've been looking to (seemed an interesting puzzle) and I think I found a reference for the names in the Historia gentis Langobardorum. Fav is probably Faruald of Spoleto and Zot is Zotto of Beneventum. http://www.northvegr.org/lore/langobard/015.php Chardon

Terrific detective work, Chardon, and some great side benefits. I didn't trust the details of that webpage since it's full of typos, but of course went to my copy of Paul Deacon (a Latin-Italian bilingual edition that I pounced on in Italy a few years ago, precisely because, as the website says, the English translation is indeed rare), and in III.13 found the full passage, and note that the webpage skips "Faroald" and indeed other words (it may have been scanned in such a way as to skip the last words of each line, I've seen this type of scanning error elsewhere), bringing up the name only in connection with Hartmann:

"In that time too Faroald, the first leader/dux of the Spoletans, invading Classis with an army of Lombards, left the wealthy city despoiled and bare of all its riches." (my translation)

Despite the scan errors, that page's quote of Hartman "Zotto" Googles as if correct, and matches names of the period, so we can consider this SOLVED.

Now here's where I get back to thanking you for the side benefits. (1) You've alerted me to a public domain English translation of Paul Deacon, which I will probably put online on the Roman Texts section of my own site (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/home.html). Dumb dumb dumb of me, though, not to have seen it on Camden's site (http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/index.html) that I routinely and constantly go to, and whom I've been helping for years; (2) I've been meaning to put Hodgkin online as well, now that I have Bury: this just about seals it.

In sum, win-win for everybody, and thanks again. The only remaining problem is that copyvio, or unattributed material, is now almost certain. It might be fun to find the original text — a candidate now is an English translation of Hartmann? — I've tried, and will probably keep on trying: will you do better? (Yes, probably!) Best, Bill 12:07, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• No luck I'm afraid. According to the library of congress hartmann hasn't been translated. Fav and Zot where added on april 17 this year by a non-member with a Greek ip adress. So it could be Greek spelling. German names are often mangled by Greeks (disclaimer: I don't speak Greek). There hasn't been a new post from him/her since may. Btw ζοτωο and φαωοαλδ don't show anything on Google :)

Can anyone identify this site?

I took this photo two years ago and now I can't remember what it is. It's somewhere near the Pantheon, I think. Adam 07:27, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This is the Largo di Torre Argentina, containing among other the remains of Pompey's Theater on the Campus Martius, the place where Julius Caesar was stabbed. It's a little south of the Pantheon. Check out Roma Online Guide (http://web.tiscali.it/romaonlineguide/Pages/eng/rantica/sAMy8.htm) for more information. In fact, this could use a bit more info in the Wikipedia. --Reiner Martin 22:18, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Grazie, signore. The photo is public domain so if there is an article it can be attached to, feel free. Adam 02:00, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Peoples of Early Italy

I restored this section because it provides a context for much of the rest of the Early history section. It is impossible to write and informative and effective history of Rome without providing at least a small amount of the history of areas around Rome. Without this section the section on Etruscan Dominance is difficult to understand and later reference to the Gaul's sacking Rome and Rome gaining control over the Greek territory in Southern Italy come out of nowhere.--Heathcliff 21:00, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I completely disagree with you. Reporting how the Etruscans called themselves, or the discussion around their origin, does not help understanding their relationship with Rome.--Panairjdde 12:15, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Proposal of splitting

The article is currently (25 May 2005) too long. Maybe it would be nice to move the History part to a new page, afterall, if there's a History of Toulouse there could be a History of Rome as well!--Panairjdde 16:01, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I said that ages ago, but no-one took any notice. G-Man 00:36, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Its not really too long, 31kb is perfectly fine. However I think it would be nice to get rid of part of it then expand on the monuments and other sections. Right now it is just one big history article Falphin 03:02, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Well if nobody objects within the next few days then I will split the article. G-Man 20:56, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I totally agree.--Revas 13:55, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Moved

Why was this paged moved to Roma(city)? Falphin 22:59, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This move appears to contravene the naming policy, which states that cities should be given their English name. This should be put back asap. G-Man 23:13, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)