Talk:Revelation
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We could use more discussion of the concept of Revelation in other religious and philosophical traditions.
RK or whoever has worked on this, it looks like a great treatment of the topic. Not sure how to fit these in, but I think there is also: Natural Revelation Some believe that God reveals himself through His Creation, and that at least some truths about Him can be learned by stuying Nature. "The heavens declare the glory of God" type of passages that you see a lot in Psalms and Job, etc.
- The way I understand it, this fits as a part of the Aristotelian rationalist view of revelation. It certainly is the way that many Jewish rationalists have seen this issue. This should be noted in the main body of the text.
Regarding the whole Aristotelian thing, there was an interesting controversy in the 14th century between Barlaam of Calabria and Gregory Palamas. I'm about to oversimplify for the sake of brevity, but here goes. Barlaam was an Aristotelian who thought that the philosophers had a better understanding of God than did the prophets to whom God spoke directly. He observed the monks at Mount Athos, Greece, and derided them for spending too much time in contemplative prayer and not enough time studying. One of those monks, Gregory Palamas, was asked to defend them, and he claimed that the prophets had superior knowledge of God because it was more direct. One key issue was whether mortal man could apprehend or comprehend a transcendant God who is far beyond our understanding. Gregory thought that yes, God could give grace to a person and enable that man to see Himself. He also drew a sharp distinction between seeing God in his energies or works, and seeing God in his essence. For Gregory, to see God in his energies was possible through God's grace, to see God in his essence remained impossible because of God's transcendance and complete otherness. The two went back and forth for years; in the end, the West hailed Barlaam as a saint, and the East hailed Gregory Palamas as a saint. It's known as the hesychast controversy, at least in the East, and is probably the East's most recent major theological development.
Hope I haven't bored everyone to tears. --Wesley
I like a lot of things about this article, but I do have a quibble. I think that the statement, "The recipient of revelation is commonly referred to as a prophet, and sometimes may be termed a messenger" actually depends on the views on revelation. Some religions believe that divine revelation is potentially available to anyone, or that it is a collective or continuing process, not just an elect few who are designated as prophets. I don't think that sentence applies to those individuals. But I'm not quite sure how to incorporate that point into the body of the text. -- Egern
- Well, Judaism fits what you describe. Some within Judaism (such as Maimonides) teach that potentially anyone might receive some form of prophecy; it also teaches that prophecy may be a collective or continuing process. (In fact, one of the terms used by Jewish theologians is progressive revelation.) No disagreement here. Judaism simply says that if one does happen to receive revelation, then that person should be termed a "prophet". You might be using a more traditional, restrictive definition of the word prophet, such as "one who has already been recognized as a prophet by the religious community." But the word prophet doesn't necessarily imply recognition; I think it merely means that a person has received some form of revelation. RK
- Interesting. Quakers have a similar concept to what you described as the views of Maimonides. They usually refer to it as "continuing revelation", although I don't recall the term "prophet" being commonly used by Quakers to describe any recipients of revelation. But based on what you have told me, and since that sentence says "commonly" and "sometimes", I retract my objections. :) -- Egern.
The following article was found on revealed truth. I redirected that topic title to revelation and am copying the article itself to this talk page for reasons explained on talk:revealed truth.
- Revealed truths are a category of truth that claim to be distinguished by their mode of discovery. Revealed truths are held by some to be given or shown to humanity by higher being(s). This 'higher power', often referred to as the God or one or more gods, are often seen as more objective and more knowledgeable than humans themselves.
- == Sources of revealed truth ==
- Those people who believe in a single, ultimate, infinite source of being in the universe (see monotheism) generally ascribe to this being the qualities of truthfulness, omnipresence (all-seeing), and omniscience (all-knowing). These three qualities lead many people to believe that this being is a reliable source of knowledge about the universe, which humanity may not otherwise be able to obtain through science or other worldly pursuits.
- Certain monotheistic religions, notably Christianity, Islam and Judaism, add a fourth quality to God; that of being personally interested in the life of every human being. Christianity in particular states that God cared enough about humanity that He revealed the truth to us by becoming human in the form of Jesus.
- Those people who do not see the ultimate being as communicating personally with humanity may believe that the truth is revealed through many higher beings, as in several forms of polytheism.
- Many of these gods, most notably the Olympians, are seen as imperfect, with incomplete knowledge, and with the potential to deceive humanity. Adherents of these religions generally recognise this as the ultimate truth. In many of these faiths, the followers aim to serve one of these beings, hoping that this being will give them what they want, and prove stronger than other such gods.
- Other forms of truth, which are not necessarily incompatible with revealed truth, are observed truth, reasoned truth, and intuitive truth (often called a conscience).
The traditional Christian view of verbal inspiration, as applied to Scripture in general, is not the same thing as dictation. Only some parts are described as dictated, or directly spoken by God, or by God mediated by angels. The rest is seen as the word of God in a sense that is almost precisely parallel to the orthodox doctrine of the Incarnation: fully human and fully divine. The dictation view is analogous to the Christian heresy called monothelitism, and Christians normatively reject it. The misconception is upheld in numerous Wiki articles, though. Can someone offer proof that some Christians have believed that Scripture was given by dictation? Mkmcconn 21:53, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Revelation not exclusive domain of monotheism
The article begins "In monotheistic religions, revelation" etc. Revelation plays a central role in Mormonism, but few including Mormons would vigorously defend Mormonism as monotheistic... B 15:13, Dec 11, 2003 (UTC)
- Good points. In fact, the ancient Greeks and Romans believed that their gods sometimes talked to people. That certainly counts as revelation. Didn't most polytheistic peoples have similar beliefs as well? JeMa
- Thanks. Clear evidence for the core role of revelation in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the "Mormons") is here: http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2004/oct/1/genconf2004oct1elderholland.mp3 Within Mormon theology, a strict fit within the definitions of classical monotheism is probably less important for members of the LDS Church than is an understanding of the nature of God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ which, in the Mormon Church, came through revelation (also in the link above, near the end). Hope this adds more light than heat. --DanB 07:12, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
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My name is Robert Merlin Evenson, and I know more about the book of Revelation than anyone who has walked the face of the earth, including the author. The secret of Revelation 13:18 (the beast with the name/number 666) is unlocked in "The Ouzo Prophecy," available at no charge from bobevenson@yahoo.com. The letters to the seven churches (continents) are God's unified message to mankind. If the main thought of each letter is connected to the next, the message is revealed: "It is not enough to merely recognize and hate evil: fear not the tribulation of Satan; fight evil wherever you find it, and do not allow it to flourish; contain evil and overcome it with perseverance and commitment to good."
Robert Merlin Evenson/Church of Ouzo