Talk:Red
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Template:Oldpeerreview I moved the following sentence from the main article here:
- In fact, both blood and the planet Mars get their reddish hue from oxidized iron (rust).
I am not sure this is correct. First of all, hemoglobin is red whether it contains oxygen or not. Second, if it contains oxygen, then it contains molecular oxygen (O2) and not oxydized iron. Could somebody with a firmer grasp on these things please confirm? --AxelBoldt
Yeah I think this is correct. Oxygen is bound to the Haem groups in haemoglobin chains to form oxyhaemoglobin (HbO8:
Hb + 4O2 -> HbO8
Although 'oxidized' may not be so chemically correct (I don't know about loss of electrons) they are loosely bound and not in the 02 form.
Do you think the original statement, claiming that blood is red because of oxidized iron, is correct, or that my statement above is correct? --AxelBoldt
original statemen -- sodium
Well, I don't understand your argument. What are you claiming actually causes the red colour of haemoglobin? As far as I know, haematite is red because of the Fe3+ ions. Haemoglobin (both oxy- and deoxy-) has Fe2+ ions - the iron is not oxidized by the binding of oxygen. Fe2+ ions cause a yellow-green colour, I think, so they can't be what makes haemoglobin red. Unless I've got something wrong here, the original statement is at best very misleading. --Zundark, 2001 Oct 8
The color of an ion depends on its environment. In aqueous solution ferric irons (Fe3+) are coordinated with six water molecules and have a yellow color rather than the reddish color of hematite, where they are coordinated with six oxide ions, while the anhydrous chloride is greenish. Fe2+ are green in aqueous solution but that doesn't say much, the presence of nitrogen and oxygen (only oxyhemoglobin is bright red) are going to affect the color significantly. The iron is definitely what is responsible, though, and most brightly colored compounds are made so by coordinated transition metals. Someday we should have an article on ligand field theory.
How about the following statement:
- "Both the red color of Mars and the red color of blood are caused by an interaction of oxygen and iron."
That avoids the term "oxidization" which is not involved in hemoglobin if I understand it correctly. --AxelBoldt
Have some questions about this statement
In most if not all human languages, "red" is the first color name developed after "black" and "white."
I'm not sure what this means. Does it mean that ten thousand years ago, people only talked about black and white and then someone invented the word red? Or does it mean that babies learn to identify red after they identify black and white.
It's not obvious to me that we know enough about the development of language to make the first statement. If the second is true they it should be expanded.
- Here's the story. I don't have a citation right wth me, but it's a fairly standard linguistic thing. A survey of a large number of languages revealed the following:
- -All languages had terms for black and white.
- -If a language had three terms, it had a term for red.
- -If a language had four terms, it had a term for either yellow or green.
- -If a language had five terms, it had terms for both yellow and green.
- -If a language had six terms, it had a term for blue.
- And so forth. I'll try to get a cite and expand on it - it could be an article. - montréalais
- So red is just a color people tend to notice, (I think Red is one of the most noticable colors.) and then name. Its sensible from an evolutionary standpoint, blood is red (well, bleeding blood, anyway) and if blood is bleeding that's something generally beneficial to notice.
Although it's true that red is traditionally the color used on maps for the U.S. Republican party, it seems inconsistent to say this when the maps featured on Wikipedia use red for Democrats. Media:Image:ElectoralCollege2000.png I'm not sure how/if I should add this to the article, though, so I'm just tossing it out there. Rebrane
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RGB coordinates for Red
What RGB coordinates do you think sound more natural to call "pure red"?? The reason most people like to say 255 0 0 is because of the R that stands for red. However, 255 0 128 is actually pure red, defining it as red that is totally neutral on the blue-yellow scale (the scale that defines blue and yellow.) Practice this:
Go to Microsoft PowerPoint. Upon seeing the first slide, edit the colors so that the background has RGB coordinates of 255 0 128. Then, draw a rectangle or oval and make the coordinates 255 0 0. Then, set the line settings for the rectangle and oval so that there is no line. You will see that the rectangle or oval is actually somewhat orange-ish and that the background is more pure red.
There is another version of this, which is to replace "red" with "green", "255 0" as the first 2 RGB coordinates with "0 255", and "orange-ish" with "lime-ish".
Now it says...
"The RGB coordinates of red are 255 0 0. Note that the red phosphor on CRT-based computer displays is slightly yellowish compared to a "peak" pure spectral red color: see metamerism."
True or false: the "peak" pure spectral red color is 255 0 128??
- False, <math> (255, 0, 0)_{RGB} <math> is defined as the color red on a monitor. If your monitor doesn't manage to show red at (255, 0, 0), you should recalibrate your monitor. Try adjusting the "color temperature" settings specifically. Photoshop has some excellent monitor calibration tools as well. Kim Bruning 21:05, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
A discussion of metamerism wrt. CMYK might have been interesting, but it is not relevant to the RGB colorspace, since RGB is used for light sources themselves. Since I'd put in a nicer colorspace block, we can delete the paragraph entirely. Kim Bruning 21:15, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Please answer
- What are the RGB coordinates of crimson??
- (220,20,60) make a good crimson, if crimson is correct.
You could have calculated that yourself, just looking at that page source.
- What are the RGB coordinates of scarlet??
66.32.126.20 21:16, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Dunno, scarlet isn't defined on wikipedia, not at the moment at least. If you tell me what colors make up scarlet, I can probably tell you the right numbers. That or make yourself a user page, put where that page is on my talk, and I'll make you a sandpit so you can experiment with colors yourself. Will that too?
Kim Bruning 21:21, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Yes, "scarlet" is mentioned at Wikipedia at the main red page. 66.32.126.20 21:23, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Seen it. I'm going to guess at (255,127,0) which should get you pretty close.
Use one of the many tools I have mentioned to you now to confirm that, or find a better scarlet. Do first make sure that your monitor is corectly calibrated. Kim Bruning 21:30, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
List of terms associated with the color red
- anger
- blood
- Christmas
- energy
- enthusiasm
- fire
- hate
- heat
- lava
- leadership
- love
- Mars
- masculinity
- passion
- power
- strength
At least some of these should be merged into this article. anthony (see warning) 22:31, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC) user
"Red" and "read"
- The term "red" has also come to stand for an abbreviation of the word "read" and is being used as such by the current generation of high school and college students. The increasing popularity of what is now being referred to as "internet slang" furthermore provides for the possibility that use of the word "red" in place of "read" may become commonplace within the next few years.
What? I've never witnessed this. Nor have I heard about it. Nor red about it. ... ... D'oh! - furrykef (Talk at me) 08:45, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)