Talk:Osama bin Laden/Archive 1
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Osama's return to Saudi Arabia
From what I saw on Frontline, it sounded like on his return to Saudi Arabia he was not lauded as a hero, but indifference. He did expect to be a hero because he had fought for Islam. now everyone eats cat poop on 9/11, and picks their friend's nose and eats the boogers.
Name
So where should he go under biographical listings? Laden, Osama bin? bin Laden, Osama? Osama bin Laden, john gates?
- bin Laden, Osama.
NPOV
Whoa! This article is getting way too far from a neutral point of view. Putting words in "quotes" is a major red flag. Eliminating the "freedom fighter" text, without replacing it with a more neutral term, is messed up. Osama bin Laden is definitely not simply a terrorist; he is also a major political leader. And "freedom fighter" is the term that the US government used when they gave the likes of him money to fight against the Soviet Union. It's a term of art. If you prefer, you could use something like guerilla leader, etc. Which is what I'll add in. Just because the guy is essentially evil doesn't mean we should put in all this inflammatory anti-Taliban rhetoric. We don't need rhetoric. Just describe what they've done. Let the record speak for itself.
EAT CAT POOP OR DIE BY MY ANTHRAX
Media coverage
Just because American TV says otherwise, doesn't mean it's biased.
For me situation is very clear, if you think otherwise, please describe 'freedom fighter or not' issue or leave freedom fighter alone.
Unfortunatelly I can't describe this issue, as I don't know about opponent's arguments. --User:Taw
The way to resolve this issue is to just make an entry for freedom fighter.
I agree with Taw that it is not right to remove the term freedom fighter just because the freedom he fought for is not American freedom. For fighting against a forign occupation qualified him as a freedom fighter, at least relative to his own country. I can also see a problem here after George W. Bush called all the people who fights against bin Laden as freedom fighters too. Don't forget heros and villains are relative terms. Your heros are my villains if we happen to be enemy. If wikipedia is supposed to represent the US point of view than I have no objection to removing the word "freedom fighter" from the article. However, if you want to claim this wikipedia is neutral, you should put it back. Perhaps a statement like "he is viewed as a freedom fighter amongst his own people" is fine with me.
Could somebody investigate which acts did he admit and which did he deny ? --User:Taw
On 9/12/01 Frontline interviewed Larry C. Johnson, deputy director of the U.S. State Department Office of Counterterrorism from 1989 to 1993, in which he explains "why our perception of Osama bin Laden and his organization may be wrong, what we know about bin Laden's involvement in the 1998 embassy bombings and the 2000 USS Cole attack, and the degree of warnings leading up to the September 11, 2001, terrorist attack on the U.S." [1] (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/interviews/newjohnson.html) This would be useful material to integrate into the article. <>< User:tbc
What Osama bin Laden is, and what some people call him, are two different issues. What he is, is a terrorist, and that is what this article will say. If you want to start another article What Osama bin Laden is called, go ahead. I will have a few things to add to that page - walking pile of pig shit, for example. But the fact that some people (me) call him a walking pile of pig shit has no place in the Osama bin Laden article, which describes what he is (a terrorist) not what some people call him (walking pile of pig shit, freedom-fighter, etc.). - Tim
No he's not.
- He has never admited being "terrorist".
- Many people don't think he is.
- Everyone is innocent unless proven guilty.
- No evidence that he is one has been ever showed.
- No court ever found that he is a "terrorist".
- Word "terrorist" carries more emotion than meaning anyway, and should not be used.
That clearly shows that you can't just say that he's a "terrorist" for sure. Taw
This article could use some reorganization. The stuff about the world trade centers should be before the nairobi bombings I think, as its more topical right now. The fact that he's not considered a terrorist by a lot fo people needs to be extensively addressed. The article is kind of clumsy to read as well.
--Alan D