Talk:Midsummer

An event mentioned in this article is a June 21 selected anniversary.

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Is this page necessary? I think other holidays have their traditional aspects and Neopagan aspects merged together in one page. - Montréalais

The traditional holiday celebration does have its origin in pagan roots, but this is not the same as saying that it is still part of a ritualistic cult celebration. I couldn't see how it was be possible to preserve the integrity and references of the existing entry and avoid giving this connotation to the traditional holiday. I think there are issues with neopagan connotation in other entries relating to traditional holidays. -- Mic

Actually, I think the point is that the neopagan holiday celebration has its origin in traditional roots. I would favour merging them and also Midsummer Day, which is the English tradition comparable to the Scandinavian ones mentioned on the "(holiday)" page. —Ashley Y 22:54, Nov 29, 2003 (UTC)

OK, I've merged them. The idea is that midsummer is simply a time of the year, and different people do different things with it. —Ashley Y 00:16, Dec 1, 2003 (UTC)

I have carefully set links, identified by the conventional bullets, at the end of each section where they describe the festivities of that particular nation. I hope someone won't come along and bundle them all together helter-skelter at the end of the entry with the general links. Wetman 17:11, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"The statistics of the number of men drowned with their zipper open is morbidly recounted every year." That quote is a riot! --Darra 18:56, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Astronomical problems

Midsummer Day, or St. John's Day, the Feast of John the Baptist, is celebrated on June 24. The summer solstice now falls about June 21. Is this because of the Precession of the equinoxes? If so, can an astronomer give us a date-span (rather long one, of course) when the summer solstice actually fell on June 24? Wouldn't that suggest when the origins of St. John's Day lie? Wetman 20:33, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Does the discussion about predicting the start of the festival by the shift in days between Midsummer and the Equinox need to take the switch to the Julian calendar into account? Dumbledad 10:08, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

We now have two sets of text, viz:

• Old version: Solstitial celebrations still center upon June 24, but the precession of the equinoxes has moved the actual astronomical equinox forward several days in the calendar, because the tropical year is about 20.4 minutes less than the period for the earth to make one complete orbit of the sun. Midsummer Night, or "Midsummer's Eve," marks the beginning of the day, which today falls on June 21, though the hour varies because of perturbations. The difference gives a very rough estimate of the age of these celebrations, if it takes 700 years to shift the equinox forward a full day (1440 minutes). The difference, about 2100 years, gives a very rough estimate of the age of these celebrations.
• New version: Solstitial celebrations still center upon June 24, but the difference between the Julian calendar year (365.2500 days) and the tropical year (365.2422 days) moved the actual astronomical solstice forward several days between 45 BCE (when Julian calendar was established) and 325 CE (First Council of Nicaea). This movement forward continued, but Gregorian calendar turned the situation to that of the First Council of Nicaea.

Is any of this right? Can we get an astronomer/chrographer to rewrite this so we all can get it clearly in mind? --Wetman 14:12, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Swedes and phalli

In the Sweden section the following quote appears: "the traditional events include raising and dancing around a huge (phallic) maypole."

I hate to be a prude but is there any real justification (other than speculative Freudian analysis) for the description of maypoles as phallic???

Fair enough. Phallic questions belong at Maypole not here. --Wetman 20:27, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

False Tolkien attribution

"This holiday is also sometimes called Litha. Its use as the name for this holiday may trace back only to its appearance in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings trilogy. Prior to that, "Litha" appears to refer to the entire summer season."

I removed this. It's incorrect. The summer season is divided into "Erelitha" and "Afterlitha" in the Germanic calendar. Litha is the word used for midsummer itself in the old Germanic languages. Where do you think Tolkien got it from?

Also, someone should really do something about the troll page crediting Tolkien with introducing American culture to the concept of "trolls". That's just plain dumb. I know it's fashionable right now to credit Tolkien with everything from the invention of hobbits and ents to the internal combustion engine, but this stuff is getting silly. Wikipedia is beginning to look less like an encyclopedia and more like an advertisement for Lord of the Rings. --Corvun 11:45, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)