Talk:List of aircraft of the RAF

On Wikipedia:WikiProject Aircraft I have started a proposal for how lists of aircraft could be rationalised on wikipedia. If you're interested, let's discuss it there -- Cabalamat 03:24, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

This page has massive problems. I'm afraid it looks as though someone has simply dumped a list of aircraft from somewhere, without any checking. I have neither the time nor knowledge to check up on all the aircraft listed here. However here are a few that never served with the RAF.

• FE2a (out of service in 1916, before RAF formed)
• Bloodhound (because it's a missile!)
• Swordfish (Navy only according to Fairey Swordfish)
• Bleriot XI (this is the plane in which Bleriot flew the channel in 1909 for heaven's sake - it was out of date in 1914, never mind 1918!)

I am pretty sure that the following never served with the RAF, because they were pre-WWI or early WWI and would have been outdated by 1918.

• Bristol Prier
• Bristol Boxkite

These require severe justification:

• Dornier 22 (it was a German navy plane)
• Junkers 52
• Junkers 53
• Koolhoven (Dutch, with no record of use by RAF)
• Albatross (are we talking about the Grumman floatplane, the German WW1 fighter or the Russian trainer?)

I'm probably going to have to blank this and let is build of from the start, or reduce it only to aircraft that there is no dispute about, unless anyone has any sources for the list as a whole? DJ Clayworth 15:20, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The Albatross, as in de Havilland Albatross. It does appear that the Bloodhound is the missile, as is the Thor. Those should indeed not be in there. When it comes to the RFC and RNAS types, some would regard those as not true RAF types, whilst others would view them from the point of view of grandfather rights. The Do 22 was in service with No 230 Squadron from June 1941 to February 1942. The Junkers was in service with No 173 Squadron in February 1943. The Koolhoven was in service with No 510 Squadron from May 1943 to December 1943.

There are a couple of missiles which slipped through, and there is some dispute about the early WWI types, but on the whole, you should find that the list holds up to scrutiny.

As for blanking the list, I would put that into the category of vandalism. There are some things that need to be done to it. I will remove the Bloodhound and Thor entries directly after finishing this post, but to wipe it out complete it totally unjustified. David Newton 14:10, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

David

Thanks for your reply, and about the Swordfish. I agree that a total blank would be pointless; I was going to leave everything that I could confirm.

If we are going to leave the WWI types in I think we ought to rename the page. We might consider 'List of aircraft of the British military', but then we should include Navy and Army types too. Or we could do our best to remove pre-1918 types, or list them separately. Does the 'Squadrons' book not give an indication of which types were out of service when the RAF was formed?

I also think that 'one off' planes like the Junkers should be listed separately. Presumably they were captured examples; a line of explanation would really help here, so that nobody thinks that the RAF took delivery of a squadron of ME 109s!. I'd love to see a little more information about each plane, such as at least the manufacturers name, and ideally date of entry. Could we also combine the different marks together: such as one line for Spitfire, with all the different marks listed?

Have you looked at List of military aircraft of the United States ? I find it a lot easier to understand.

Having said all that I appreciate the completeness of the entry. Well done for that. I know a fair bit about planes and there were several I had never heard of. DJ Clayworth 19:59, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I'm aware that the additions I've made have done odd things to the alphapetic ordering. I'm not sure yet whether it would be better to change the order to follow the manufacturers name, or to change the name entries to "Lancaster (Avro)" etc. DJ Clayworth 16:42, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

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I've made a little bit of a return to editing this page. I have slightly altered the nomenclature on some of the US aircraft. The reason I have done that is because the RAF does not use the US designations officially. The C-130 is commonly referred to as such, but in official RAF useage, it is the Hercules C3 or C5, or whichever other mark number is needed. The only exception to this rule is the C-17. There the RAF does use the USAF designation because at the moment, the aircraft are only leased. I would imagine that if and when they are bought, the designation will change to Globemaster C1.

I have done that on the theory that people who find this page are looking for the RAF designation, not the USAF one. David Newton 02:44, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Makes sense; the US desig (if common) would be a nice addition as a parenthetical note, as is done for the Canberra in the US list. Stan 15:41, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It's official. They're being bought. -N328KF 02:38, 2004 Jul 22 (UTC)

David, why 'pursuit' rather than the much more widely recognised 'fighter';? DJ Clayworth 14:47, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sporran: good choice to revert I think. My personal preference is for ordering by the most commonly used name e.g. 'De Havilland Mosquito' under M, because more people will remember the name 'Mosquito' than 'd Havilland'. Of course that does make the list look rather odd. If someone had time we could either 'embolden the main name so that it's easy to work out what the 'sort key' is, or rewrite each line as 'Mosquito, De Havilland'. I don't really like the second as there are already too many comma separated items on the lines.

DJ Clayworth 15:20, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The bolding looks really ugly. Tannin

There are a number of anomalies still, relating to type name/number versus manufacturer name. The Vega Gull is in twice. The Avro 504 should be ordered as 504 (so before the A's). Sundry Morane types are listed under 'M'. Wasn't he Douglas 'Havoc' known as the 'Boston' in British service? And I agree that 'pursuit' is anomalous for a list of British-used aircraft. Rcingham

I found many references calling the HP V/1500 the Handley Page V/1500. That's obviously what it stood for, and is clearer about who the manufacturer was, so I suggest we leave it. DJ Clayworth 22:11, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)