Talk:Lee Harvey Oswald

What is the source for "the rate of fire and accuracy he is purported to have attained has never been matched in latter day testing by known marksmen" ? Might this need to be made more specific; meaning for the particular type of rifle Oswald possessed? What type of rife was that? -- Infrogmation

The source for that is any number of conspiracy books that endlessly quote each other's misinformation. It is quite false - as in deliberate dishonesty, that is. For example there is one famous author who, in describing the FBI tests, simply omitted all the succesful tests - and many since have quoted him. The truth is that the assassin's performance has been not merely matched but greatly exceeded, many times (because it just isn't all that remarkable), but conspiracy theorists always find some excuse for not counting these results. -- Roger 11:30 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

As I recall, A Mannlicher-Carcano bolt-action, poorly maintained, with misaligned scope. The make is considered significant in that it was the cheap (both inexpensive and not very good) weapon Castro was giving out.

The Mannlicher-Carcano was cheap at the time simply because the Italian Army (who used it) were on the losing side in WW2. Tests actually showed that it was in fact as inherently accurate as the best other standard infantry rifles of WW2. See for example: http://www.jmasland.com/testimony/ballistics/simmons.htm While this one in particular is often described as poorly maintained, it is not at all clear that it was so at the time of the assassination; it just seems to have been a matter of it not being cleaned properly for months afterwards - not surprising seeing as it was evidence! --Roger 11:30 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Dissenting analyses of the present LHO photo (the gravity-defying backyard snap with newspaper and rifle) claim the rifle is not tha MC, pointing to certain modifications that don't match the official weapon. Furthermore estimates of the figure's height from the known length of the pictured rifle don't match Oswald. (I've also wondered how it's known to be a "leftist" paper in the photo -- I've never seen a print in which the print was legible.)

If it's vital, i'll hunt up sources. -- Kwantus 06:06, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

These claims (that the "backyard photo" was a fake) were examined extensively by the HSCA, and completely debunked. --Roger 11:30 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

On the quality of the rifle: ‘Was it possible that Oswald, a mediocre to downright-poor marksman, according to various sources, could fire that rifle with such speed and precision at a moving target, partly obscured by trees, creating such havoc and mayhem with a weapon the Italian army called the “humanitarian rifle” because it never killed anybody when

That was US propaganda, not the Italians. Tests have clearly shown that in the hands of a good shot it is capable of shooting to better than 1 MOA of accuracy, which is not sniper rifle standards but is a heck of a lot better than the standard of shooting displayed in Dealey Plaza. --Roger 11:30 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

deliberately aimed? A twenty-five dollar, WWI-vintage rifle [the MC was designed in 1891] with a single-bolt action

Although the design dated back to before WWI, so do the designs of a lot of other excellent rifles, some of which (e.g. Springfield .30-06) are still winning competitions. And what does "single-bolt action" mean? The action on the Carcano was the Mannlicher action, which is still today the world's most popular rifle action for both sporting rifles and target shooting. --Roger 11:30 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

and a misaligned telescopic sight? [not merely out of alignment, but impossible to align w/o shims, which weren't found;

More lies and exaggerations from the conspiracy authors; see http://www.jmasland.com/testimony/ballistics/simmons.htm for the facts. It was not impossible to align without shims, they just found it to be the most convenient method to do so because of the damage to the scope. And there is absolutely no evidence at all to suggest that this damage occurred before the assassin dropped the rifle. --Roger 11:30 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Just to clarify that for those not familiar with rifle scopes. Modern ones are fairly robust, and can take quite a few knocks - so much so that increasing numbers of armies are equipping ordinairy infantrymen with optical sights of various kinds. But in the early sixties, scopes could be knocked out of alignment but quite a modest knock, or even permanently wrecked by being dropped on a hard surface. Given that the assassin had apparently tossed it behind a crate, you would expect the scope to be in much worse condition when found, than when it had been used -- Securiger 23:34, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

plus its chirality was wrong] Could he have hit a moving target in the given time frame, 270' away, a feat expert FBI and Army marksmen were unable to emulate on stationary targets?...

Wrong, they equalled or exceeded it repeatedly. Authors of certain books just don't like to tell it that way. See below for more --Roger 11:30 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Why use a bolt-action rifle, when he could have used an automatic weapon such as a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) or even an M1 carbine that would have allowed a lot more shots and a lot faster?’[1] (http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/assassins/jfk/1.html) However, others have said this model is actually quite good, in the top five of Tim Mullin's trials[2] (http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~glibera1/carcano/general.html) Take yer pick =)

As to matching Oswald's feat: ‘The US Army Ballistic Research Laboratory conducted further tests using three Army sharpshooters, who all held Master Rifle ratings from the National Rifle Association...These guys did not mess around. They set three targets at three different distances -- 175, 240 and 365 feet and shooting from a tower 30 feet high with the same rifle, that funny Italian job...a stationary target...The first two marksmen not only missed the time frame, they missed the target. The third guy, a man called Miller, was the only one ever to match Oswald's shooting speed, but his shots were so wild, his third shot not only missed the target, it missed the board it was mounted on...

A complete distortion which has been endlessly repeated by conspiracy authors quoting each other. See http://www.jmasland.com/testimony/ballistics/simmons.htm for the facts. The first two (actually civilian) shooters did fall (slightly) outside the time limit, but shot far more accurately than Kennedy's assassin. The third (military) shooter shot just slightly more accurately than the assassin (two hits out of three shots on each of three test sequences, but with the hits much more closely grouped than the assassins'), but this tester shot considerably faster; even his slowest test was slightly faster, and his best test was 1.2 seconds faster. --Roger 11:30 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

[they] had also corrected the inaccurate telescopic sight...’[3] (http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/assassins/jfk/11.html) bibliography at the very end - doesn't give specific sources for these paragraphs

Another quirk: early reports named a different kind of rifle. Charles Mentesana filmed "the rifle" being taken from the TSBD, and apparently it's not the MC

Deputy Seymour Weitzman initially described the rifle as a Mauser; this was a simple error. Mausers and Carcanos are very similar in appearance, and Mausers are much more common. And Mentesana's film shows quite clearly - if you rub the scales from your mind - not a rifle at all, but one of the police officers' issue Remington 870 shotguns. --Roger 11:30 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The Bob Jackson photograph

Can we get a photo credit? Vicki Rosenzweig

I know this famous 1963 image by photographer Bob Jackson has appeared elsewhere with a copyright notice. Is it now public domain, or has the right for Wikipedia to use it been secured? Wondering simply, -- Infrogmation 20:19 Dec 4, 2002 (UTC)

Since I've still gotten no responce about this, I suggest this photo be deleted unless we're presented with evidence that we have permission to use it or it has been placed into the public domain. -- Infrogmation 02:21 Jan 26, 2003 (UTC)

Deleted.

Again, a version of Bob Jackson's famous photograph, said in various souces to still be under copyright, was added to the article. Hfastedge, please clarify if you have gotten permission or if the copyright issue has been similarly resolved, or this will again need to be deleted. -- Infrogmation 15:24 22 May 2003 (UTC)

I believe the "innocent until proven guilty" practice should be applied here. So why dont you provide solid proof that it is not for public domain. (User:Hfastedge)

Um, you could try google. this here (http://www.doctorcosmo.com/oswald/oswaldoriginal.html) or here (http://www.arts.rpi.edu/~ruiz/Lessons/Photojournalism/B.%20Jackson,%20Jack%20Ruby.jpg)

By and large works copyrighted so recently as 1963 should not be assumed to be public domain; perhaps you're thinking of 1923.

Here's a nice article about Jackson & the photo: http://alt.tnt.tv/specials/moi/photo_oswald.html (Note it credits "photo: Robert H. Jackson; courtesy of Robert H. Jackson".) You could try writing to him asking permission to use it. It might be nice to give him credit for it if so. -- Infrogmation 18:54 22 May 2003 (UTC)

Wikipedia's license works perfectly well with copyrighted works: namely, Fair_use. You have not provided solid evidence that this picture is not for public domain. user_talk:hfastedge

Once upon a time (it was 1976, for anyone who cares), I was told by a journalism professor that copyright on newspaper articles required that the original newspaper be acknowledged if copied or reprinted. That was before Congress rewrote copyright law in 1978, but I think that minimum standard needs to be met -- & I'm sorry to see that this wasn't done when it was re-incorporated back on 22 May. After all, this was probably the high-point in Robert Jackson's career, & using it without crediting him is wrong ethically, IMNSHO.

Why can't someone who wants this picture in the article take the time to ask Jackson if it can be included under the usual Wikipedia terms? -- llywrch 19:08 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Try contacting Gary Mack, the curator of The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. Mack could give more details on Jackson or on the copyright of the photo. Contact info can be found at http://www.jfk.org/Media/Zapruder_Press_Conference.htm.

-- Hoshie

Copies of the copyrighted image have sat here over a year. (Has anyone who wanted it included yet cared about it enough to write to Mr.Jackson?) Let's resolve this. I've listed the images on Wikipedia:Copyright problems. -- Infrogmation 17:24, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Alias

Lee Harvey Oswald used the ailas "Alek J. Hidell" during his lifetime. I am torn on creating a new article, a redirect from the Hidell ailas to the Oswald article, or talking about it in the Oswald article. Which is best?

- --Hoshie

Write about it in the article. To also create the redirect is not a bad idea, but I don't think it is in any way necessary either - it's not like someone is likely to ever create the Alek J. Hidell link (except for my creation here and now). Andre Engels 23:46 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

If this is accurate, it certainly should be included: [sharpshooter] sounds somewhat impressive, however, this was the lowest rating of the three available to service personnel (sharpshooter, marksman, expert) and Lee Harvey Oswald even had difficulty in qualifying for that.[4] (http://members.rogers.com/amatniek/jfk.html) any Marines out there? -- Kwantus 06:24, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

It seems to be wrong. My Googling comes up with sharp as the middle grade, with this page (http://www.westol.com/~johnsog/mcl/postal.html) perhaps the best evidence. (On the other hand, there, the grades are Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert, Master, and High Master - SS is still pretty low. I doubt they'd reorder the grade in past 40 years) -- Kwantus 18:15, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

This link [5] (http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/anderson1.htm), which is included on the main page, makes it much clearer. Sharpshooter is not low, it 'indicates a fairly good "shot"'. Not brilliant, but definitely above average. (Forget about Master and High Master; less than 5% of shooters qualify for those. To get High Master, at 600 yards you have to be mainly hitting bullseyes).

On the other hand, his score two and a half years later was a bare pass. What's to be made of that? I was at one time a recruit small arms coach, and there are a lot of reasons why a good shot can get an occasional bad score, but only one way to get a good one. On the basis of the admittedly scanty evidence, the most reasonable conclusion is that Oswald was an above average but not brilliant shooter, who had at least one bad day - maybe caused by the slack attitude he was displaying by 1959. Attempts to paint him as a lousy shot seem to be agenda driven and just do not fit with the available evidence. -- Roger 14:16 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

A total irrelevancy: LHO's father was Robert Edward Lee Oswald[6] (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/orphan.htm) ... he planted his President in his father's namesake's onetime front yard!

irrelevant Ruth Forbes Paine Young info

I removed the following paragraph because 1) there is no direct relevance to Oswald and 2) The reasons given for why Ruth Young started the IPA are misleading. older≠wiser 21:08, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

Because of her son's involvement in the assassination, her Forbes family's involvement with drug dealing in China during the Opium War, and her husband's involvement with the military and defense industry, Mrs. Ruth Forbes Paine Young started the International Peace Academy, which have fed rumors about her family's politics.

The Kerry info

Obviously, the info on the Paines being related to presidential candidate John Kerry is not relevant to this encyclopedia entry. Therefore, I ask that it be removed. I will not do it myself, as I have worked too hard to have to stoop to it.

New Evidence

Can we have a citation for this new evidence, the letter and the "Al Hidell"? Gamaliel 20:13, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've deleted the section on "new evidence". The Judyth A. Vary Baker stuff is true in that she does claim to have been Oswald's lover and confidant, but this is hardly "new" in that it is at least 3 years old. She also claims that Bertrand Russell was involved and that Oswald was involved in CIA bioweapons research. A good run-down is here (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm). We can restore mention of her if others disagree with my definition of "new" or believe she deserves inclusion, but I don't see what makes her claims particularly encyclopedic above any number of other people who claim to have been involved with Oswald or some conspiracy.

I can't find any information about a new Oswald letter or a photo of "Al Hidell" despite a couple of whacks at it with google. Frankly, it all sounds entirely made up to me. Let's see that letter and photo, please. Gamaliel 09:18, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Famous!

This article was featured in a Chicago Sun-Times article about Wikipedia - see http://www.suntimes.com/output/worktech/cst-fin-andy20.html for more. Pcb21| Pete 13:44, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sweet. I've never been so happy about being called "rational and orderly" before. Gamaliel 20:02, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

NAA source?

What is your specific source(s) for your following Walker bullet claim? '"...though neutron activation tests later proved that the bullet was from the same manufacturer as the one that killed Kennedy."' 64.12.116.130 17:21, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I got it from one of the half dozen or so books I was reading at the time, but here's a quick web link to the same info: [7] (http://edwardjayepstein.com/archived/state_print.htm) Gamaliel 17:54, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

("tag" 6412116130) If the following claim by Warren Commission apologist Edward Epstein from your reference is what you based your claim upon, then there is a wide disconnect between an Oswald-supposedly-purchased bullet (for which there is no record of his purchase, no actual cartridges box that when sold contained 100 bullets, and not one of the supposedly 95 other empty bullet cartridges were ever found that matched the rifle found balanced on its bottom edge in the depository despite post-assassination retrieving every single empty bullet cartridge at ever single rifle ranges in the Dallas and Ft. Worth areas), and linking the Walker bullet to Oswald is extremely problematical from much more recent, and documented, research. (see below)

Here's Epstein's claim you referenced, "Third, the previously-discussed Neutron Activation Analysis done in 1977 exactly matched the metallic elements found in the bullet that was recovered in Walker's home to the batch of Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition used in Oswald's rifle in the assassination of Kennedy."

The 1977 test that apologist Epstein refers to is from the Dr. Lattimer tests that Lattimer did for the HSCA official investigaton that concluded a second assassin did fire at the President. Dr. Lattimer used ammunition from "Western Case Cartridge Company" ammunition (supposedly the same used in Dealey Plaza) from "WCC" manufactured lot #'s 6000, 6001, 6002, 6003. Lattimer claimed that these rounds were of the same manufacture lots as the ammunition supposedly used by Oswald, and that they were manufactured in the year 1954. The "Western Case Cartridge Company" ammunition lot #'s 6000, 6001, 6002, 6003 are now documented to have been manufactured thusly:

Lot 6000 - Completed - 03/29/54, Shipped 04/01/54, Amount - 1,000,000

Lot 6001 - Completed - 04/15/54, Shipped 04/21/54, Amount - 1,000,000

Lot 6002 - Completed - 05/06/54, Shipped 05/11/54, Amount - 1,000,000

Lot 6003 - Completed - 05/27/54, Shipped 05/28/54, Amount - 998,000

Lot 6003 - Completed - N/A, Shipped 09/02/54, Amount - 2,000

In other words, there were exactly 3,999,999 other rounds of the very same bullets that were, all, chemically identical to each other AND the Walker bullet (and the Parkland-Hospital-found nearly-pristine bullet, and fragments found in Kennedy, Connally, and the limousine)

Further, if this ammunition was manufactured in the year 1954, it could not possibly be part of the 1952-53 HSCA traced ammunition shipment to Greece "alleged to" be connected to the actual source of the ammunition used in the Walker attempt and the killing of President Kennedy.

(the rustiest of nails) It is also documented now that lot #'s 6000, 6001, 6002, 6003 were ordered by the United States Marine Corps, as a front for the actual, final receivership of these ammunition lots bullets, which was the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Epstein, and other Warren Commission apologists, with regard to the Walker bullet (its rifling grooves have never been linked to the rifle found balanced upright in the depository) and the Dealey Plaza found (and not found) bullets and bullet fragments have not researched far enough back, and/or, have not followed the most recent documented findings since Lattimer's study in 1977, some 27 years ago.

(another extremely rusty nail) Finally, with regard to even the using of NAA as a forensic tool, you may or may not be aware of it, but since November 2003 the entire validity of NAA being utilized with specific regards to bullets compositional comparison has been called into highly critical question scientifically by the FBI, itself, and other professional forensic groups and professional forensics experts. Final conclusions are forthcoming. 205.188.116.130 08:54, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Nothing I personally added to the article comes from the writings of Mr. Epstein, whomever he is. I simply provided a link to the first page google gave me about the when/where/who/etc of the tests in question. Gamaliel 09:50, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

A couple of points-

Oswald received a small, routine "hardship" loan from the US Embassy in Moscow to finance his return to the States with Marina. He made payments, and had paid it off by the time he shot Kennedy.

He did offer the Russians "everything he knew" about US radar operations in Japan. Unfortunately for Lee, this wasn't anything the Russians didn't already know. In effect, he even botched being a traitor, and resorted to slitting his wrists to avoid being repatriated to the States.

He requested a "hardship" discharge from the Marines, left before it was approved (it would have been), but this was definitely changed to "dishonorable" when it became apparent that he made the application as a pretext to defect to the USSR. When he got back to the States with Marina, he was appalled to learn about his discharge status and (ironically) wrote a letter to Gov John Conally about it. He also witheld the information from most of his employers. Wyss 83.115.144.128 05:21, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Editing and Reverting

This is a controvercial subject that Wikipedia editors have mostly managed to improve the article on in a polite manner. The recent reverts back and forth are endangering this-- if it continues, it will become appropriate to put a temporary protection on the article due to edit/revert war, and the page will not be freely editable. I hope this will not be necessary. Please discuss changes on the talk page. Especially for points which have been changed back and forth more than once, please explain here why you think one version is superior to another, and do not change it back until others have had a chance to express their opinions and give feedback as well. Thank you. -- Infrogmation 20:14, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Points of dispute

What are the points of dispute with the article? I'll start with one I (Infrogmation) have noticed:

Point one: What is happening with the handgun in the photo?

As far as I can see, Image:Lho-133A.jpg shows Oswald with the rifle in one hand and the newspaper in the other, with the handgun at his side, not being held. If I am mistaken, please explain. The point as to if Oswald is holding, wearing, or wielding the handgun has been edited and reverted back and forth multiple times. From this, I assume that some Wikipedia editors either dispute over this point, or that they are not paying attention to some of the changes they make to the article. -- Infrogmation 22:15, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Suggested change: In line with the above, I suggest changing the portion of the image caption which currently reads "This photo, showing Oswald wielding a rifle, a handgun, and the Belgrade daily newspaper Politika," to read "This photo, showing Oswald wielding a rifle, wearing a handgun, and holding the Belgrade daily newspaper Politika,". Objections, comments? -- Infrogmation 22:22, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I too was mystified to see the back and forth on that one, here's a vote for Infrogmation's change. -Wyss 83.115.7.232 01:38, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Did anyone have a problem with that edit in particular? It was just a casualty of the reverting. I'm fine with either version. Gamaliel 01:46, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Point two: That the daily newspaper is Politika is probably misinformation

See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oswald/interviews/blakey.html

"The photograph itself does several things. One: it self-identifies Oswald as associated with the Marxist literature. He's holding in his hand the Daily Worker and the Socialist Worker Party literature."

205.188.116.11 substitution

The following text by User:205.188.116.11 overwrote the ==Early life and Marine Corps service== section. If somebody wants to merge it in the article, please follow the Wikipedia style and conventions:

Lee Harvey Oswald was setup to take the fall for the killing of President John F. Kennedy. The Warren Commision was sanctioned to find Oswald as Kennedy's killer from the onset. Even though pictures show Oswald watching the President outside the Texas Book Depository. Within 90 seconds of the shooting a police officer finds Oswald on the second floor with a partially consumed bottle of pop. He wasn't even out of breath, stated the police officer. The bullet that struck Kennedy was from an Italian WWII rifle that used a 6.5, full metal jacket(military ammo). Now consider that the military didn't have any U.S. made weapon that used 6.5 ammo, but yet an East Alton IL. ammuntion manufacturing plant, made and supplied millions of rounds of 6.5 ammo to supply to the military. Why did the military need millions of rounds of ammo that they couldn't use? Or could they. After WWII the Italian Government unloaded it's rifles, almost 250,000 to a broker in the U.S. Thet were going to sell them for hunting. So the 'front story'goes. More than likely, those rifles were used in covert government operations. The story also goes Oswald ordered the rifle using a bogus name A.J. Hidell, but they couldn't even make up a story as to where Oswald got ammuntion. Oswald was indeed set up by the same organization he was connected to, probably the C.I.A.

History is written by the victors. And don't believe for a moment that it wasn't victory for some factions of our government when Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas.

There's nothing here worth preserving, it's all speculation and POV. The only actually relevant "fact" is false - that's not Oswald in those photos of the Depository. That man has been identified by Depository employees again and again as an employee named Billy Lovelady. [8] (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oswald_doorway.htm) Gamaliel 18:24, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

marina oswald

why does the marina oswald link redirect to the lee harvey oswald page?

Never-ending conspiracy theories

Some years ago, a somewhat-satirical book came out that summarized all the different (and contradictory, of course) theories on the JFK assassination. It is hard for the writers of this article to avoid point-of-view, but they are taking a conspiracy as a "given"j and forgetting a few fundamentals:

Oswald was not a "poor" shot, he was a "good" shot, though not a "great" shot.
The first time he faced the press, Oswald didn't talk about being set up. He was initially being held for the killing of the policeman, and a reporter blurted out, "Did you kill the President?" His answer sounded rehearsed: "I have not been accused of that; in fact, I didn't even know about it until you asked me that question."
The famous "6 seconds" (reckoned by some to be more like 8) was the total time starting with the first shot. The elapsed time between shots was at least three seconds, possibly four; not two as is often stated erroneously.
The most obvious "conspiracy" was the desire to ensure that it was the work of one guy so as not have to go to war with Russia, because it was immediately assumed by everyone in America that the Russians did it. Those who think otherwise are probably too young to know or remember what the "Cold War" was like, how much paranoia there was about the threat of Soviet Russia.
The Kennedys themselves contributed significantly to the suspicions, by keeping such a tight lid on information. The facts have slowly come out, exposing much of the Kennedys' dirty laundry.
There's no question that the Warren Commission left itself open to second guessing. But there is no real evidence, after all this time, that anyone other than Oswald was the guy... and I admit I was suspicious for a long time, but I've come around to the one-man theory.
Our government is notoriously poor at keeping secrets. If you want to look for a conspiracy, look at the Mafia of that time, not at any government.
Has anyone actually heard the supposed 4 shots on that audio recording? It would take Superman to tell the shots from the static. Sorry, I don't buy it. And I'm not the only one.
Part of the continuing interest in the JFK assassination is that people are unwilling to accept the notion that one guy acting alone could change the course of history so starkly. But it happens.
And in case you're wondering, I'm a Liberal and a JFK fan. But facts are facts. Wahkeenah 21:44, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Oswalds fight with sergeant

Just want to point out that Oswald was not sent to the brig for fighting with a sergeant, he was sent there for using Harsh language towards an officer and was cleared of pouring a drink over him.

Got a reference for that we can check? I'm sure we can all agree on changing a simple factual error if this is one. By the way, please sign your talk page posts, which you can do with four tildes (~). Gamaliel 00:34, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

My source is Anthony Summers, Conspiracy , pg 146 (John geraghty 16:27, 18 May 2005 (UTC))

Apologies for deleting of facts

I want to apologise for replacing of facts and information, from now on I shall talk about it on chat and not simply replace it. I am currently in the process of providing sources for all of my facts and addressing the facts I feel need to be rewritten or altered. All the best and sorry once again (John geraghty 16:34, 18 May 2005 (UTC))

Confused about the 1956 test

The Wikipedia article says that Oswald was a good shot, how he scored 48/50 and 49/50 on tests on December 1956. I'm debating the topic with a conspiarcy theorists, so I've been Googling up facts. The only 1956 test I can find is when Oswald achieved a score of 212. I have not found a document that lists a markmanship test scoring 48/50. Can somebody confirm the 48/50 test or delete the info? Hbdragon88 21:59, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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