Talk:History of Azerbaijan
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This is a controversial topic, which may be disputed. |
- Hi Guys,
I just landed here, as I was looking for the Golestan treaty. I am some how surprised by the tone of discussions. I believe these discussions are fruitless. Facts are facts. Yes, as mentioned in one of the articles, the real name of the region that is called republic of Azerbaijan today is ARRAN.
It was named "Azerbaijan" by Soviet leaders for simple geo-strategic and geo-political reasons. And you know what? We see they have been successfull when we see this type of narrow-minded discussions.
The truth is that Azeri's are much closer to Iranians (yes, Iranians and not only persians) that most of them want to admit. Azeri's share most of their history with Iran, as Iranians share their history with them. Our cultures have the same roots. We even share the same religion (most of Azeris are Chiites like the majority of Iranians, whereas most of Turks are Sunnites). Iranian Crown Princes have been always prepared to rule in Tabriz.
Have you ever asked yourselves why Azeri language is considered as a Turkic language? I let you go back to your books and you will find out the reasons.
Azeris have been among the first popolutions who built and founded Iran and they have been heroical. Have you heard of Babak Khoramdin? He is an Iranian Hero and of Azeri descent. He was a guy you resisted till the last moment the Arab invasion of Iran. He was not fighting for Azerbaijan only. He was fighting for Iran, his land.
There are more Azeris in Iran than in the republic of Azerbaijan. And you know what, they are happy to be Iranians.
Also, as an Iranian, let me tell you (and all Iranians - Azeri or non-Azeri - would tell you the same), we consider you as our brothers and sisters. We consider you as our compatriots.
Cheers, Babak.--81.63.25.171 20:38, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
198.81.26.43/K1/Roozbeh: Please cease reverting each other's versions of this page and attempt to reach a compromise regarding the content of this page. If you do not, this page will be protected until you do. Thank you. -- Grunt (talk) 23:58, 2004 Jun 27 (UTC)
- Dear moderator,
- I respect what wikipedia stands for and I know that when there are constant different opinions regarding a topic, the threads are closed. However, I will have to ask you this question: how can I come to conclusions with chauvinists who try to change the history of a land in order to destroy the existance of ethnic identity and who label anyone writing truthful, non-Persian versions of history as "pan-something" in order to silence the truth?
- I don't think the staff at Wikipedia or most people understand the tactics that these Persian chauvinists (Iranianists/Aryanists) use to justify ethnic hatred and genocide against different nations living in Iran.
- regards,
- Emil Muazin
- As far as I'm concerned (and as I'm saying for the third time to ensure that the point is heard), there are two equally valid (invalid?) points of view in contest here. Since there is enough material for two entire articles in two different lights, this much seems to me to be obvious, so if any sort of neutral consensus is to be reached both of you will have to accept that the other's view is valid; then maybe we can create a properly neutral article. -- Grunt (talk) 01:37, 2004 Jul 7 (UTC)
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Page protected
Month-long edit wars are bad. I suggest Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Also please read m:The wrong version and Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars ever. Thanks - David Gerard 00:35, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
From my Persian Encyclopedia
I did some translation from the Gholamhossein Mosahab's 1966 The Persian Encyclopedia of the history of the Soviet Azerbaijan (which is the Republic of Azerbaijan now). I consider it somehow neutral (at least the historical facts, I don't claim anything about the wordings), and I will be adding stuff from other related articles about the history of the region to subpages here. Please note that there may be copyright violations, so avoid using it for anything but reference: /Soviet Azerbaijan, /Azarbaijan, /Aturpatkan, /Albania (ancient), /Arran, /Shervan /Golestan Treaty, /Torkaman-Chay Treaty.
BTW, Caucasian Albania may also be helpful in resolving the disputes about the history of the area now in Republic of Azerbaijan.
Roozbeh 22:03, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Your "Persian encyclopedia" is only good for people such as yourself. What is "Gholamhosein" (Ghulam Hussein in real languages) Was he a Persian chauvinist trying to change history for you to quote on ? And what is "Golestan" (Gulistan in real languages) and "Torkaman chay" (Turkmenchay in real languages) and where is "Azarbaijan" (Azerbaijan, Azerbeijan in real languages.) Man you need to spell properly..yuck. These Persian pronounciations are worth nothing to a real historian....and neither are any of your Aryanist sources. All your sources are Iranian nationalist (Aryan propoganda) sources that are only useful for people such as yourself. Who cares what "Gholam Hossein" the Farsi grocer said?
- You should go and check the United Nation files against Persian chauvinisim..."gholam" and "hosein" and "akbar agha" don't mean anything in reality. LOL.
- I consider your wording to be reason enough that you don't want to get into a debate about the facts, but you just wish to restate your opinion about "Persian chauvinism". Please discuss the facts, like when was the current Republic of Azerbaijan first named "Azerbaijan". The Persian Encyclopedia mentions 1918, and the 1911 Britannica mentions that Azerbaijan is what is in the south of Aras/Araks/Araz. Both these point to the idea that the area was not called Azerbaijan before 1911, but Caucusian Albania, Arran, Shervan, Baku, etc. Why is not the word "Azerbaijan" mentioned in the 1911 Britannica article on Caucausia [1] (http://69.1911encyclopedia.org/C/CA/CAUCASIA.htm) which mention Baku, Elizavetpol (Ganja) and the Kura valley, and at the same time its article on Azerbaijan [2] (http://66.1911encyclopedia.org/A/AZ/AZERBAIJAN.htm) mentions that the area is limited to Aras on the north? What is your counterclaim? That "Persian chauvinists" influenced Britannica in the early twentieth century? Roozbeh 10:46, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Or let me ask another question. This Azerbaijani source (http://www.zerbaijan.com/azeri/history1.htm) mentions "Arran" two times. Where was it? May not this what is mentioned in this article (http://home.btconnect.com/CAIS/Geography/arran.htm) by C. E. Bosworth, Emeritus Professor of Arabic Studies from the University of Manchester and an expert in the history of the area? Roozbeh 11:07, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
ATROPATAN, the real name of the republic of Azerbaijan ==
To the "Azeri"s
The "Azeri"s on this page are actually Anatolian Turks, advocating the separation of Azerbaijan from Iran. How do I know this??
Because I myself am an Azeri. But like millions of Azeris, I am also a proud Iranian. Iran in fact belongs to us. We helped defend Iran against the Iraqis. We helped defend Iran against The Ottomans. For God's sake we even ruled Iran. who were The Medians? Who were the Safavis? Who were The Qajaris? Who were the Pahlavis? Who is Ayatollah Khamenei? Ayatollah Khamenei IS an Azeri. Iran is ours. And I am not going to sit and be convinced to separate and move out of the land that is ours. The Azeris are in fact the remnants of The Medians. I claim this for a fact. We even have indigenous Turks in Fars. Besides, Iranians, unlike the Turks and brainwashed Sovietized Azeris are warm blooded people. Olar yakhchi adam dular.
The Republic of Azerbaijan should return to its motherland, Iran.
Iran IS the homeland of Azeris. Khosh keisin.--Zereshk 09:23, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
And this poem is from Shahriar, the great contemporary Iranian poet, from Azarbaijan, in answer to those who tell Azaris they are not Iranian and should be separatists. Funny thing is that most illiterate Pan-Turkists claim him as a Turk "symbol" because of his famous "Heydar Babaye" book. The following poem is from his "Divan Ghazaliyat":
درد دل را با زبان دل بيان کردی ولی --- کيست اهل دل که باشد آشنا با آن زبان
ليکن اينها دشمنان کردند از ايران مرنج --- دوست را قربانی دشمن نشايد کرد هان
تو همايون مهد زرتشتی و فرزندان تو --- پور ايرانند و پاک آيين نژاد آريان
اختلاف لهجه مليت نزايد بهر کس --- ملتی با يک زبان کمتر بياد آرد زمان
گر بدين منطق ترا گفتند ايرانی نه ای --- صبح را خواندند شام و آسمان را ريسمان
بيکس است ايران به حرف ناکسان از ره مرو --- جان به قربان تو ای جانانه آذربايجان
تو همايون گلشن قدسی و نزهتگاه انس --- دامنت زرتشت را مهديست طوبی سايبان
آسمانی کشور آذرگشسبی لاله خيز --- دامن سرسبز تو رشگ بهشت جاودان
The above is just one of numerous examples of his poems which clearly shows how he felt about Iran and Azarbaijan's inseparable bind with Iran. He has many poems about the Achamenids, Sassanids, Ferdowsi, and many other exmples which show how Azaris feel about Iran. Oh, and yes, this is the same Shahriar (Hussain Bihjat Tabrizi) who wrote "Heydar Babaye ُSalam"! --80.58.5.42 06:55, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
with oldest proved documents
with oldest proved documents we have form 550 BC and that is Avesta the the book of Zoroaster . that it's called the birth place of Zoroaster "Azar-Abadegan" Azar in Persian mean fire and Abadegan is combination of "Abade+Gan" that means territory in persian. Still in iran, azarbaijan,Afghanestan and kurdish area they are using the word "Abade" in end of most villages like "Ali-Abade" or "goul-Abade".