Talk:Edgar Allan Poe

It would be much more useful for an encyclopedia to have brief articles on the more significant Poe works than to have complete texts. I think that about ALL the works of literature that have been put on wikipedia, so far, but especially once they start taking up multiple pages. Wikipedia may not be paper, but nor is it the sum of all information. --MichaelTinkler.

I don't have an objection if the articles start with a brief title or introduction. You cannot assume every reader knows the work. But if only the work of one author is added to the encyclopedia, then other authors appear to be less important. Is there enough disk space here for all literature in the world?

I agree, Wikipedia is not the place for complete short stories or novels. Make links to Project Gutenberg editions instead. We should have descriptions and criticism of the texts, though. --Pinkunicorn

I deleted a couple of William Shakespeare texts from Wikipedia a little while back for similar reasons and nobody complained then, so I think I'll do the same here and just delete the complete texts; be bold in updating pages and all that. I think that the only time a complete work of literature should be included in Wikipedia is when it's been fully annotated as a sort of Coles Notes, which would actually be useful. --Bryan Derksen

The full text of many of his stories is at WikiSource (http://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page:English). We should link to the full source for stories and poems there instead of including the full text of the articles. The same goes for Shakespeare. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:22, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

Death location

Didn't he die in Baltimore? Danny

I think that's what the article says... :-) user:sjc

It didn't for a while - my fault. Memory playing tricks on me. It's better now. --Camembert

The Raven widely popular?

Where is this "widely" where The Raven is considered the most famous American poem? I've been lots of places, but never there yet -- where I've been in the U.S., A Visit from St. Nick has it beat hands down, not to mention a couple of Longfellow's and Trees, among others. I'll give you that a lot of people know the word "Nevermore" from it, but not the poem itself, and not more than know "Dasher and Dancer and Prancer and" so on. -- isis 04:31 Nov 4, 2002 (UTC)

Kinda late in responding here, but any appelation of popularity is going to be subjective and biased. Most people I know have heard of and read the poem. Most children here study it in grade school. "A Visit from St. Nick" may be more widely known in some areas and "The Raven" in others. I think it is correct, though, since I've seen many sources which claim it is the best-known American poem. — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:22, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

picture

What's up with that picture? It looks...cartoonish. Can we replace it with a version of this image: http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:fnVA74tL3YcJ: Edgar%2520Allan%2520Poe.jpg ? I'm not sure about the copyright status on that one otherwise I'd do it myself --Tothebarricades.tk 06:19, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think the picture rocks! Yes, it cartoony, but he doesn't look incredibly stern like he does in all his other portraits (like the one you linked). Can't we use both portraits? — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:22, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

What about the photo here: http://www.americaslibrary.gov/jb/nation/jb_nation_poe_1_e.html - not cartoony, and it has full source details provided, so the copyright status is clear. --Paul A 04:47, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, I prefer the cartoony looking one, personally. Both the others suggested here make him look cross and, um, depressed. We could still use two images: the "cartoon" one and the "sad" one later in the article. Just MHO. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:50, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

There's a huge tiff of that image available from the Library of Congress at http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/list/235_pop.html#PoeE The thing is, Library of Congress says "Copyright by C. T. Tatman, 1904". I don't know how it could still be under copyright--it was taken in November of 1848, and it was published in Scribner's Monthly in 1880. (See here: http://www.eapoe.org/geninfo/poepicud.htm ) It's an amazing image, though, and it really shows Poe's mental state by 1848. I would hope we could use it (together with the other one). P.Riis 00:40, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

If I've got it straight, what the LoC has is not the daguerrotype itself, but C. T. Tatman's 1904 photograph of the daguerrotype; what effect this has on the copyright, I don't know, because IANAL. The image that appeared in Scribner's in 1880 is also not the daguerrotype, but an 1880 wood engraving based on the daguerrotype (if the LoC photo turns out to be a problem, maybe we could use a copy of the engraving instead?). --Paul A 05:33, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The more I look, the more I think we're fine to use it. The LoC site says "In cases where permission from a rights holder is clearly required, links to jpeg and tiff files are not provided and only a small reference image appears." Somebody in 1904 asserted copyright on the photograph of the daguerreotype, but a mechanical reproduction of a public-domain image can't be copyrighted anyway (Bridgeman Art Library Ltd. v. Corel Corporation). P.Riis 13:57, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Edgar Allan Poe category

I'm not really up-to-date on the current thinking about how categories should work. I'm just curious--what's the thinking behind putting Edgar Allan Poe solely in the category "Edgar Allan Poe" and having all the categories link to the category rather than the article? Is this the way to go with other major authors with a lot of related articles in WP? P.Riis 18:10, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure--I just copied them from the incorrectly titled "Category:Edgar Allen Poe". It makes Edgar Allan Poe a sub-category of all the categories it includes. Linking an article to a category and that category's super-categories is discouraged however, so I removed the ones from the article. — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:22, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

OK, thanks, I get it. There was a pre-existing typo'd category. I'll just sit back and see what other people make of it. (That "Allen" typo gets in everywhere, doesn't it!) P.Riis 20:54, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Notable works section and stubs

I'm really not too crazy about the "Notable Works" section for a couple reasons--first of all, some of the choices seem kind of arbitrary, and secondly, the articles linked out from there aren't on the whole very useful. Many (most) of them are only a sentence or two, and it doesn't look like anyone's jumping to expand them into useful articles.

So how do you deal with a situation like this? I wonder if it might be better to take the very short ones and just make them redirects, then put whatever useful information is in these tiny articles right on the Poe page. The larger ones (say ones that are more than a couple of sentences) we could leave. It just seems that people are adding their favorite Poe story, making a link, then creating a not very useful stub.

For now, I'm just taking out the red links, so people don't feel obligated to create links for each story. P. Riis 00:32, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Whiskey or brandy ?

It's just a detail, but in the "Poe's death" section, it is said "Every year since 1949, a cloaked, unknown admirer has left a birthday rose and a bottle of whiskey on Poe's grave"; while in the "Legacy" section, it is said "It has been reported that an man draped in black with a silver-tipped cane, kneels at the grave for a toast of Martel cognac and leaves the half-full bottle and three red roses". Can anybody tell which is correct ? And shouldn't this be mentionned only once? Dom 14:52, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's cognac. The account in the "Legacy" section was more accurate, so I just deleted the one in the "Poe's death" section. PRiis 15:01, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Legacy & Lore

An anonymous editor removed the Legacy section in its entirety on 4 March 2005. I have restored the section and renamed it for better description. There is much interesting information within it. If someone thinks it is inappropriate, let's discuss it here. --Blainster 00:05, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The Raven Link

Is there any reason the link to The Raven points to able2know.com, and not the wikisource url for this document?

Mchlax 07:29, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The vast pool of advice

Here are various locations where suggestions have been made to improve this article. The info on Poe's life needs to be expanded, as does info on how his work was perceived in his lifetime and after his death. Thanks in advance if you're going to help out.

Harro5 (talk • contribs) 07:13, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

More of it

Information on his wife needs to be present, because that feeds into his criticism.
His criticism needs mentioning. In particular, it is imperative that there be a discussion of the "single effect" theory he had for short stories, and his peculiar understanding of the sublime.
1. It would be nice if this were placed in the context of continental Romanticism.
2. It would also be nice if this were contrasted with the other fiction writers of America (Hawthorne, in particular).
His poetry needs a big bump. While folks read "The Raven," that's not the poetry that was most praised, nor the poetry he considered his best. In fact, there is reason to suppose that "The Raven" was even a literary joke (although this evidence need not be presented or the case argued).
In his fiction writing, there are significant achievements for him that should be played up. The most obvious and glaring one is that he "invented" the detective story ("Gold Bug" and "Murders in the Rue Morgue," as well as "The Purloined Letter"). Further, he developed his own particular style of short story that was distinct from others of the day. Part of this was for commercial reasons, of course.
Work in translation: Arguably, Poe is most important because of the incomparable translations of his work into French. In French, Poe is not just good; he's an immortal. Baudelaire deserves a lot of credit for this, and, in turn, the development of late French Romanticism owes a lot to Poe (Rimbaud, e.g.).
Copy editing and sentence smoothing/combining.

I wish I could offer to supply all of these wants, but the only thing I can really offer is the last one. Geogre 04:29, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

By the way...Poe considered the Raven to be his best work - heavily detailing it in the Philosophy of Composition. I'll find my source if you would like. I think I might have read it from a piece on Poe written by the well-known critic Harold Bloom. But I do agree that other works should be detailed because he has many famous ones. --Nadsat 05:10, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

He did? Wow. I never would have figured that. It has a Childe Harold quality, I suppose, but I can see signs of parody in it and also had some sources to support me on that. I would like the citation. It's not necessary for the article, since we needn't say best, worst, or other about the poem. It's enough that the poem is terribly popular now. It's just that I have had my quarrels with Harold Bloom before, and I'd be interested to see what on earth he was doing here. (I like arguing against "Shine on, shine on/ Harold Bloom.") At any rate, the article has a lot of needs, and I'm not an Americanist. Geogre 15:45, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Cryptography Section

Would anybody object to/support the thought of adding a cryptography section to this page. I know Alexander's Weekly and crytogrpahy is mentioned in the article, but maybe it would be interesting to devote a full section to it. Perhaps that would also help with the layout of the page (so that a paragraph about crytography doesn't just appear randomly in the middle of it all) etc. I'd be happy to do it. Thoughts? --Nadsat 05:04, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good Nadsat, this would be a welcomed addition. Harro5 08:05, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

Why does the article end abruptly with, "He like gay porn."? Even if it's true, can't it be worded more formally? And must it come out of nowhere without any supporting citation?

Because some 13-year-old who still thinks 'gay' is the funniest word ever invented just discovered the page and had nothing better to do. Just revert edits like that, and don't give them too much acknowledgement; most of them just do it for the attention. --Calair 15:42, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Life Of

The statement "There is also no evidence to why he wrote a poem called "To the river". There is no recording in what the poem means or why he wrote it," in the "life of" section does not belong in its present location and I do not see any place for it in the entire article. It critiques a specific poem with no indication-- or evidence-- of the poem's overall significance. I'm removing it.

Hans Pfaal

Are we sure Hans Pfaal is considered a novel?

Things that should be added

1.The article, surprisingly, makes no mention at all of Poe's two siblings (a brother and sister I believe) and what his relationship with them was.

2.A sentence or two should be added dealing with Poe's gambling and financial problems while he was at west point. After all, it was his financial situation which was one of the main causes of the friction with his adoptive father.

3.Much more should be said in the article about Poe's relationship with Virginia, and about how her illness and death influenced the themes in his fiction.

4.There should be a lengthy section dealing with the major themes, both textual and sub-textual, in Poe's fiction.

5.The article should also mention Poe's carrer as a public speaker.

6.And like other users have mentioned, there should be something about how his work was recieved by critics in his own time. Anon

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