Talk:Ecumenical council
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I'm sure I wouldn't count Calvinism as part of a magisterial tradition (I'd substitute Anglicans, instead). From my Calvinist childhood and youth I agree that Calvinists accept the CREEDS of the early councils, but little else. They sure don't accept the disciplinary measures or even the Canon of the Old Testament. Calvinism isn't exactly sola scriptura, despite saying the contrary (no Trinitarian can get away without some serious theology above and beyond Sacred Writ to explain the Trinity). --MichaelTinkler
Well, I've always heard Calvinism and Lutheranism called the magisterial reformation, in opposition to the radical reformation (i.e. the Anabaptists). Not too sure where Anglicans fit in.
As to acceptance of the early councils, how much of their pronouncements concerned things other than doctrine? In my mind the main thing associated with the early councils is doctrine, especially the christological controversies -- Arianism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism. When I said they accepted their teachings, it was their doctrine on issues such as christology I was mainly thinking of.-- Simon J Kissane
- Yep, that's the first thing in most people's minds, but in fact the Canons of each council (the technical term for the pronouncements) are usually made of three things: doctrinal pronouncements, anathemas (anathemata, technically) against those teaching in opposition to the doctrinal pronouncements, and disciplinary measures. For instance, the whole leavened/unleavened bread dispute between the East and West falls into that one, or bearded/shaved priests (and believe me, that's a HUGE issue among the Orthodox today, with people anathematizing their opponents as 'bare-chinned clerics' in a way that clearly implies that they are eunuchs!), or celebration of Easter. It goes on. I'll integrate it into the article. A majority of the canons are disciplinary rather than doctrinal. For instance, and only because my copy is within arm's reach, Canon 22 at the Second Council of Nicaea is titled "It is the duty of monks to say grace and to eat with great parsimony and propriety when occasion arises to eat in the company of women." --MichaelTinkler
- Calvinists and Lutherans are part of the "magisterial reformation" because their goal was the reform of the official doctrine of the Catholic church, not because of their adherence to Catholic tradition - in contrast to the Anabaptists as Simon said, who rejected the Catholic church and all identification with it, either historically or doctrinally, since the time of the Apostles. Sola scriptura does not mean the rejection of theology above and beyond the Bible (if by that you mean, rejection of theology, period - Lutherans and Calvinists are both confessional movements from the beginning, however both reject secret histories and other secret sources of doctrine and practice). Anglicans are part of the Calvinist reformation, although the modern Anglican who considers himself a Calvinist is rare indeed. Lutherans also subscribe to sola scriptura, just as the Calvinists do, although neither group denies the need of theology. Calvinists do not deny the canonicity of the Old Testament - however, it is a diverse group that uses this name, and I don't doubt that there are "Calvinists" who deny the Old Testament, just as there are "Catholics" who call the pope the Antichrist. Mkmcconn
The article says the LDS church rejects the early ecumenical councils. Are there later councils that it accepts? Would it be possible to enumerate the councils it accepts, the way the article currently enumerates which councils are accepted by the Eastern Orthodox, Nestorians, etc.? Wesley 05:55 Feb 23, 2003 (UTC)
- I'm going to take the deafening silence as a no, and assume the LDS don't accept any of the ecumenical councils. The later councils generally begin by reaffirming the earlier councils, after all. If I'm mistaken, I hope someone will correct me. Wesley 15:53 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Were not there a number of other councils that accepted such things as Nestorianism, Arianism, or Monophysitism, and whose results were rejected by the councils mentioned? Some note should be taken of them if they in fact existed. -- IHCOYC 15:44 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)
- There were probably some local or regional councils that did, in areas where Arianism (to pick an example) had large number of supporters. I don't think that such councils would be considered ecumenical by anyone, though. Wesley 15:53 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)