Talk:Declaration of Arbroath
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WikiSource
Text probably belongs on WikiSource rather than here. —Ashley Y 10:55, Feb 25, 2004 (UTC)
The translation is a GFDL one done specially for Wikipedia. The text is here so that people may modify the translation if they think some part of it to be incorrect. -- Derek Ross 15:17, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- It may still be appropriate to put it on WikiSource... —Ashley Y 09:41, Feb 27, 2004 (UTC)
Most Famous Quote
The most famous quote from the declaration is the phrase traditionally translated as:
For as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any condition be brought under English rule. It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
The above phrase turns up hundreds of independent hits on google.
An unfortunate consequence of our translation is that this key phrase is translated uniquely. Someone searching for the well-known bit "as long as but a hundred..." (as I did) will not find our Wikipedia entry.
Is there a case for bringing this highlight of our translation partially into line with the traditional translation? --Air 15:38, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
As the author of the Wikipedia translation, I take your point. However I was aiming to make the translation as literal as I could without completely sacrificing English grammar. This was partly for reasons of clarity to others who might want to check the translation and partly to avoid copyright problems with other modern translations. The Wikipedia translation may not be as rousing as the one that you quote, but it is closer to what Cardinal de Linton actually wrote and it is licensed under the GFDL.
Having said that, how do we address your point ? Well I suggest that the best way is to include the quotation in the main article text with a comment about its place in history. That should allow people who search for it to find our article. We could also make minor changes to the translation: "True man" could be changed to "honest man" for instance. But I'm against reducing the accuracy of our work with the sole aim of getting more web hits or a higher ranking on Google. -- Derek Ross | Talk 02:27, 2004 Oct 16 (UTC)
- Hi Derek, I agree with your points on accuracy of translation, the purist approach is best. After some research, the 'popular' translation was made by Sir James Fergusson (http://www.clanstirling.org/Main/lib/research/TheDeclarationofArbroath.html). I can find other translations by Agnus Mure MacKenzie (http://www.electricscotland.com/history/darbroath.htm) and another from 1689 (http://www.rampantscotland.com/know/blknow_arbroath.htm) which use different wording again. Hence I think a quote from Fergusson as you suggest will (1) point out his contribution and (2) highlight the most rousing part of the letter, while leaving our translation intact. --Air 14:57, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)