Talk:Communist state

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The section on "the special case of China" is nonsense. There is no debate on remains committed to Marxism-Leninism is subject to debate, but a "Communist state" is merely a standard political science definition for a Communist Party-run regime, and of course China is governed by the Communist Party. The CPC's committees and its organization departments at each level use their nomenklatura authority to control the appointment and dismissals of key officials throughout the government ministries, agencies, legislative organs, and state-owned industries at their own level and one level below. It remains a basic fact that much of the economy is largely in the hands of the state bureaucracies at various levels or state-owned enterprises. Cadres of the party-state, not private entrepreneurs, are still the dominant economic players. The military is commanded by the CPC Central Military Commission, which is accountable to the Politburo's Standing Committee. Law enforcement remains under the coordinated control of the party, using its nomenklatura authority. The apex of the Chinese political system is the Politburo Central Committee and its presiding Standing Committee, which are essentially not accountable to any state agency or to any judicial restraints. I will make the necessary changes to clarify the fact that there is no ambiguity as to whether or not China is ruled by the CPC. 172 01:41, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

If corruption and lobbyism controls law enforcement and political parties then perhaps they should be called neoliberal instead, which can be compared with United States. The interesting thing is not who controls something but what controls them. Money control us all. --TobiasBengtsson 15:45, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Contents

1 Naming 2 In what world? 3 Article is not a NPOV 4 Additions needed.

Naming

This is only one name, "Communist state" in English? no "socialist state"? i am doing interwikis. because both of those calling exist in Chinese, got a little confused. --User:Yacht (talk) 13:11, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)

Socialism in the West is ordinarily used to refer to social democracy although it is also used by totalitarian Marxists.

In what world?

We would not accept an article on Catholicism based on a theory of heaven; why is its political equavalent being advanced in what is supposed to be an encyclopedia: "As communism entails the abolition of the state, a communist state is a logical impossibility." This article is about regimes ruled by Communist Parties, not about utopian fantasies. Fred Bauder 15:48, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)

I am afraid you are mistaken. Heaven is an idea, and therefore represented in wikipedia. This article is about regimes ruled by "so-called" communist states yes, but due to the ETMYLOGY of the word, it is hardly a utopian fantasy, much less direct democracy being one. It is a logical impossibility - it is an oxymoronic statement. The term "communist state" only persists because it was coined during the 20th century (just like the word "gay" for being homosexual was) for totalitarian planned economies. In truth, being gay has no relevance to being homosexual, (well not until some people in the 1960's hijacked the word), and neither has communism to totalitarian governments. Communism = ideology of communes, communes do not exist in totalitarian states. -- Natalinasmpf 18:55, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Article is not a NPOV

Especially in the lead section:"A Communist state is a state governed by a single political party which declares its allegiance to the principles of Marxism-Leninism. The term Communist state originated from the fact that most of the states in question were or are run by parties that called themselves "Communist Party of [country]." Thus, they became known as Communist Party-run states, or simply Communist states. However most of these states called themselves socialist, since in Marxist political theory, socialism is the intermediate stage in reaching communism, which is a condition with no state, so that communist state is considered an oxymoron."

Is not said,where the term is used and by whom, where originated from, etc. This makes it look like "we, who call them communist states, are right" and "they, who call themselves socialist states (even considering a communist state an oxymoron term) are not right". So, it's one POV which by far prevails another. And therefore the article seems not to fit NPOV criteria. Cmapm 01:47, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This article is obviously not NPOV. Look at the list of websites. (I will be adding official websites for the countries listed.) It needs to be totally cleaned up. --harrismw 02:49, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, another POV article that needs a MAJOR cleanup would be Communism. I consider it one of the most POV articles I've come across on wikipedia. BTW, nobody yet explained to me what the real difference between socialism and communism is. Wanna try your luck? Luis rib 18:18, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There are two - three definitions of socialism. There is broad socialism, that is all ideologies that are basically anti-capitalist and equalitarian. There is socialism meaning a (broad) socialist state (narrow socialism) and there is Marxist socialism which generally means the second. Thus all "communist states" are really socialist (!) (narrow). Communism similarly has three meanings, a socialist (broad) society with decisions made at a community level, characterised by minimal hierarchy, the end result of Marxist theory (not really fully explained) (both these first two do not have a nation/state) and what are commonly called communist states. --harrismw 01:34, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have always found this article an attempt to hide critique that should be in the Communism article. Any attempt to make historical critique of Communism even weaker will result in moving back the historical examples in more detail to Communism. Ultramarine 19:18, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Additions needed.

There needs to be infomation about Chile.

There needs to be more infomation that is less biased. "As noted in the introduction, a "Communist state" is a state where a Communist Party holds power within the context of a single-party system of government. Thus, a country ruled by a Communist Party (or some other communist group) is not automatically a "Communist state"." And bias needs to be removed.

It needs to be pointed out that the various countries have vastly differing economies and systems of government. (Compare China to Cuba.)

Just needs to be cleaned up. --harrismw 08:06, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Communist Party of Chile was not the ruling party in Chile. They were a junior coalition partner, I believe (the Communist Party was also a junior partner in the first Mitterand government, btw). Allende was not a Communist Party member. AndyL 10:58, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)