Talk:Cognitive therapy

Contents

1 Rational Emotive Therapy 2 Terminology 3 Article Flow? 4 Bad edits 5 claims of critics

Rational Emotive Therapy

Cognitive therapy is broken down into many branches. Of two of those, Beck and Ellis, Ellis has his Rational Emotive Therapy and Beck has his Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is redirected here, but this page doesn't give much information about it.

I think some of these need to be seperated out, because I can't find information on Beck's therapy in itself.

Terminology

I have seen this kind of therapy referred to as REBT (Rational-Emotive Behavioural Therapy) and RET (Rational-Emotive Therapy); I initially tried searching using 'REBT' and failed to find anything, only finding this later after trying 'therapy'. It would be nice to include these terms in the article (or perhaps put redirects to it; I'm new to Wikipedia so I don't know what's best) so it can be found via those names.

I'm not sure on the guidelines for redirecting acronyms, best thing I think would be to ask and then do it. Or just add a bit in the introduction mentioning the other names. Are they exactly the same? - Xgkkp 20:55, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The thing that concerns me is that CBT and CT are lumped together as somehow being one in the same, which they are not. CT, which is what Beck devised, is slightly different than CBT, a more recent innovation. REBT, on the other hand, has numerous things in common with CBT and CT, but also differs somewhat. Namely, the theorist who developed it. Without getting too divisive, RET and REBT are also slightly different. It would be beneficial, in an academic sense, to at least include an explanation of how they differ, and discuss how these differences came about. At its most primitive, CBT includes elements of behavioral modification. That's also how RET and REBT differ, if memory serves. I'll end my rambling now, except to say that it's rare to find a Beck-centric clinician that employs straightup CT. Most use CBT. And studies involving the efficacy of cognitive approaches for the treatment of depression typically examine CBT.

Article Flow?

I found it difficult to read this article, it reads like many short paragraphs stuck together without any sense of flow or direction. I don't think that it could be easily solved without a complete re-write though, something that I'm certainly not knowledgeble enough about the subject to do.

Perhaps it should be changed to more resemble the style of the Clinical depression page, given how the two are linked - Xgkkp 01:30, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Another Idea - Categorisation? - Xgkkp 20:56, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Bad edits

68.54.45.35 made some bad edits. Does any know how to revert them?

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I tried CBT. I didn't get on with it. I'm now with a therapist who is largely humanist in approach. Much better. I looked at some of the links from this page - they read like advertising copy for CBT. The first problem with CBT is that it starts off by telling the client that s/he is having 'irrational thoughts'. (Contrast Laing's thesis that however bizarre the patient's beliefs and behaviour seem, everything is perfectly rational from the perspective of the patient.) Sensitive clients are liable to be just a little bit insulted by being told they have irrational thoughts before the analysis has even begun, and so the relationship with the therapist starts in a bad way. Secondly, cognitivism and behaviourism don't really fit together that easily, since the first asserts the existence and accessibility of thoughts and feelings in the subject - something which the latter denies. The approach is therefore eclectic to the point of inconsistency - perhaps then it is the therapist who is not quite rational? Third, the cognitive part of CBT asserts that feelings follow thoughts, and thoughts are propositional attitudes which conform to Brentano's thesis: i.e. thoughts are essentially about things. Actually, I think the disposition to anxiety often comes first, and the thoughts and the 'aboutness' is more-or-less an epiphenomenon. Once I realised this, I have found it slightly easier to manage my anxiety. (Brentano's thesis is also part of the existentialist-humanist tradition - I think Sartre mentions it in Sketch for a Theory of the Emotions, but it turns out that the thing that thoughts and feelings are about can be 'everything in general and nothing in particular', which is as good as saying that the thoughts and feelings don't really have any content at all. I guess I must read Sketch in its entirety - it is not a long book - that is if I can keep myself calm enough for long enough to do so.)

claims of critics

This is arguably the primary type of psychological treatment being studied in research today, a fact that critics of CBT claim is due in part to its very rational, "scientific" methodology, rather than because it is more effective than any other modality.

I tend to be fairly loose about whether you need to cite sources in order to include a criticism in an article; too much stringency plays into the hands of POV warriors who feel they can deny their enemies the chance to be heard if they simply be unreasonable about demanding sources for the obvious. However, the above criticism is not obvious at all; I find it in fact very odd. Is it trying to say that CBT is not the most effective of the modalities? If so, that's a claim that needs some supporting evidence -- not necessarily proof, but at least indication of why someone would believe that. If it's trying to say "CBT would be popular even if it wasn't the most effective modality because it appeals to researcher personalities", well, that's a difficult statement to support since it's based on a counter-factual. I think we need to get some source for this criticism, find out who's saying it and exactly how they're saying it. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:06, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

In fact, to support supporters of CBT is this article: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=22319# "Cognitive therapy as good as antidepressants, effects last longer" 12.126.65.246 09:26, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

CBT is effective for treating depression, anxiety and also the delusional symptoms in schizophrenia. CBT does not treat treat the cognitive deficits nor the social cogntive deficits associated with schizophrenia. For this a cognitive rememdiation or a cogntive enhancement therapy is indicated. Hogarty and Flesher et al have published a report on Cogntive Enhancement Therapy in the 2004 Archives of General Psychiatry. Alice Medalia hosts an annual conference in Cognitive Remediation on the first weekend in June in New York. Those interested can check out the following link http://www.cognitive-remediation.org