Talk:Bishop (chess)
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how easy is it to win with a King and Bishop versus a King? Kingturtle 01:43 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)
- It is impossible to checkmate with a king and a bishop versus a king, even if both players cooperate to try to set up a checkmate position. --Fritzlein 23:08 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)
"Bishop" <-> "Ship" Question
Is it true that the bishop was a ship (diagonal travel)in the beginning of chess? They then have been replaced by bishops on behalf of the church (they had no representation on the board until then). I heard this somewhere and i suspect this is just a rumor .... but better to put it here. -- 62.46.48.93 19:20, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I don't know that the bishop was ever a ship. I think it was originally an elephant. You can see in Chinese chess and Korean chess even today they have an elephant where chess has a bishop. Also I believe that in Europe the elephant was first called a "fool" because the word sounded sounded vaguely like the Persian for elephant, and the piece was represented by a jester's cap. But then someone thought the jester's cap looked like a bishop's mitre, and that's how the piece was converted to being a bishop. I haven't researched any of this; I just think I read it somewhere once... --Fritzlein 02:59, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's what i though initially too (and which is mentioned in the Chess page. ......Ok, i've found this (http://www.halexandria.org/dward316.htm) source (not the one i refered to above though), but they also claim that "The rook or castle was originally an elephant, with a fortified chamber, tower, or castle on its back. [...]" Which is a bit strange since the asian chess had a rook AND an elephant if i'm not completly wrong. (you can see the non-asian images in a german pdf file (http://www.proxima-centauri.de/xiangqi/xiangqi.pdf)) --80.109.73.21 16:19, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I'm no expert on chess history, but I've read a fair bit, and my copy of the Oxford Companion to Chess (I don't have anything better to hand just now) confirms our initial thoughts: the bishop replaced the fil, which took its name from the Persian for "elephant". The rook takes its name from the Persian rukh, "chariot". There is no mention of ships.
- The misconception that the rook used to be an elephant seems to be a common one; I'm not sure why. Maybe it's just because in modern novelty chess sets the rook is sometimes represented as a war elephant. If somebody can check H.J.R. Murray's History of Chess or some similarly respected source, there may be more detail; perhaps there will even be mention of ships (I doubt it, but you never know). A source such as Murray I would trust; dodgy-looking webpages I find hard to trust. --Camembert
- Thanks for the feedback. :) I have no such trustworthy source reachable, that's why i initially put the question here. And i do not trust ANY online content at all (includes wikipedia ;) ). The above link was just an example (the first thing i found with google), and i'm trying to 'eliminate' these rumors .. if they are rumors. Finally, as you said, it would be best if s/b who has one of these books could search a bit there. It would be greatly appreciated. --80.109.73.21 15:38, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)