Talk:Basque language
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Template:ConvertIPA The notes about the ergative case need more checking and probably elaboration. The entry under ergative case needs this as well, as there are different types of ergative systems.
- I've changed 'unusual grammatical forms' to 'grammatical forms unusual in Europe', because the ergative is quite common worldwide, and there's nothing particularly unusual about Basque's application of it. Gritchka
It is my understanding that Basque has no accusative. The Object is the nominative. That's the point of having an ergative. -- Error
Basque uses an ergative ⁄ absolutive system instead of a nominative ⁄ accusative one. Elconde
- Some other words are thought to go back to the Stone Age because they include the root haitz- (rock).
Does anyone know the details behind the above statement? I'm guessing that haitz- has been found in languages from cultures which have been physically isolated since the stone age (rather than anything particular about the word "rock") but the current rendition doesn't really make that clear. - IMSoP 00:10, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- As far as I know it's purely that in those words for tools made of stone in the stone age, there is a element meaning "rock". -- Error 02:12, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Hm, I'm still confused. Are you saying
- these are words for things that, since the Stone Age ended, have been made of things other than stone;
- but which, during the Stone Age, would have been made from stone
- and therefore the fact that these things are labelled with words related to "rock" implies that they have been called those same things ever since they were made of stone,
- and therefore ever since the Stone Age?
- these are words for things that, since the Stone Age ended, have been made of things other than stone;
- If so, we need to work out how to explain that in many fewer words to clarify the article. - IMSoP 21:55, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Hm, I'm still confused. Are you saying
- Yeah. It's not very plausible but there are also those that said that Basque was the language of Eden before Babel.
I'd like to know if the Basque Wikipedia is the first and only encyclopedia in the Basque language. Guaka 22:59, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Hmm, apparently it isn't. [1] (http://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/bronze9.htm) Guaka 23:04, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
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Euskara vs Euskera
Thinking about this lovely language I'm so fond of, would anyone who knows a bit more about it add why whe mention that the Basque name for the language is Euskara, but do not happen to mention the everpresent Euskera as well? Muhamedmesic 19:33, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
- OK, see that it's been added. Dialectal names, you say. What about the Euskaltzaindia? Anyway, lagun, eskerrik asko! Muhamedmesic 22:20, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Writing system question
I see from the article that Euskara is written with the Latin alphabet. When I was in the Basque country, there were a lot of signs written in the Greek alphabet. I assumed they were Basque; what gives? Thanks --Chinasaur 05:37, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- In Greek? Are you sure it wasn't Bashkiria? I can't imagine a place in BC with Greek signs! There is a font family used in some Basque texts (http://www.basquexplorer.com/basqueletter/UsTypes.htm) (and in French bilingual signs), characterized by thick serifs, but it doesn't seem Greek to me. -- Error 01:28, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
If you're asking me if I'm sure I was in France and not Russia, then yeah I'm pretty sure :). You could be on to something with the typefaces; it was a long time ago but I particularly remember thinking I was seeing some Φs. Maybe the "t" in some of the faces you linked to could be what I was seeing. I really thought there was some other Greek-looking stuff, but it was too long ago to remember clearly. This was around Saint Jean de Luz. Thanks for looking into it. --Chinasaur 04:03, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Rock and axe
- Some other words have been proposed to go back to the Stone Age because they include the root haitz- ("rock") for objects which have since been made from other materials. For example, haiztoa ("knife"), haizkora ("axe"; others link this to Latin asceola, "little axe").
It's a bit unclear the reason of this comment:
1: it is pretty clear that it was borrowed from Latin, just as the English word "axe"
- I am not sure the english word is derived from Latin. It seems plausible it is a common IE cognate...
2: even if it was of Basque origin, what would it prove? that Basques ancestors used rock tools ? All our ancestors used them. That is a thousands of years old? In any natural language most words are that old.
- No, languages change faster than that. A language that still maintains relation to the stone age would be indeed remarkable. Advocates of Basque like to quote it. -- Error 04:00, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- It's not very clear what you mean by "maintains relation to the stone age". Basque is like most languages, it has a very long history but has undergone many changes throughout that history. It surely does preserve some words that are thousands of years old, but then, so does English and so do most languages. There is no particular limit to how far back a language can be reconstructed -- it depends on each individual case. But there are cases where it's pretty well agreed among historical linguists that the proto-language (hypothetical ancestor of a current family of languages) goes back at least 10,000 years or so. -- Unamuno 23:52, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
3: it's not even a unique derivation: for example "Seax" (short sword of the Saxons; hence their name) was probably derived from the Latin word "Saxum" (rock) Bogdan | Talk 10:00, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Officiality
- Spanish Constitution (http://www.constitucion.es/constitucion/lenguas/euskera.html#tpreliminar): Espainiako beste hizkuntzak ere ofizialak izango dira haiei dagozkien Erkidego Autonomoetan berauen Estatutoei dagozkien eran.
Basque is not coofficial in the rest of Spain. -- Error 20:25, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Origin of "Basque"/"Vasco"?
What is the origin of the term that has been adopted by most European languages? A-giau 09:54, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- 1817, from Sp. vasco (adj.), from vascon (n.), from L. Vascones, said to originally mean "foresters." Vasconia was the Roman name for the up-country of the western Pyrenees. Earlier Basquish (1612). (www.etymonline.com)
- Latin Vascones is certainly the source for the word, but I know there is fairly significant uncertainly as to the origin of the Latin word (as there is for very many Greek and Latin names for various tribes). I know Trask's book has a list of the hypotheses. -- Unamuno 14:03, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Dialect names
I've just made a couple minor modifications to the Dialects section -- it could be considerably expanded and perhaps I'll do that soon. But for now I just wanted to note that I've chosen what seem to be to be reasonably common and recognizable forms for the dialect names. However, there are unfortunately a large number of variants -- there are slightly different Spanish, French, and Basque variants for most of the dialect names (e.g. Zuberoan vs. Souletin, Labortano vs. Labourdin vs. Lapurdian). In the case of the province of Bizkaia there is even an established English variant (Biscay), although rarely used. At any rate, I figured it was worth getting opinions on how to name the dialects, which other variant name to mention in parenthesis, etc. -- Unamuno 14:08, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Standard Basque is mostly based on 17th century classical Navarese-Labourdin. Vocabulary is more Gipuzkoan though.
-- Basque guy surfing, 26 March 2005
The term 'Basque Country'
I think that the term is misused in the article and it's confusing. It's said that Basque official in full 'Basque Country' and some parts of Navarre. I consider this inaccurate. What it's called here 'Basque Country' is the 'Basque Autonomous Community' (Comunidad Autonoma del Pais Vasco, Euskal Autonomia Erkidegoa), a community inside the Spanish Country, but has nothing to do which what is historically considered 'Basque Country' or Euskal Herria.
Vowels
- The vowel system is the same as Spanish for most speakers, namely /a, e, i, o, u/. It is thought that Spanish took this system from Basque.
Greek has the five vowels /i e a o u/ as well. Did Basque influence it, too? The 5-vowel system is the most common in languages worldwide. Is there any evidence giving reason to suspect that Basque gave Spanish its vowels, or is this just a myth? --Vlad
- But Greek had length differences, didn't it? Isn't Castilian Spanish (not the s-aspirating variants) the only Romance language with 5 vowels? Maybe Gascon language or Spanish-influenced Galician language, or some Italian dialects have also just five.
A reference would be good, though.
Answer: Standard Galician has seven vowels (it distinguishes between "closed" e and "open" e, and between "closed" o and "open" o. Nevertheless, some Galician-speakers use more vowels in their speech (in the Ancares mountains, the nasal vowels haven't dissappeared yet), and many Galician-speakers (especially new-speakers, snobs, TV and radio hosts) don't make any difference between "closed" vowels and "open" vowels. Sardinian is a romanica language with merely 5 vowels. Hence, Dante wrote that Sardinians speak like monkeys imitating humans. --Yerrux
Euskaltzaindia
Could someone take a look at the new article Euskaltzaindia and see if it needs to be fixed up, altered, or just redirected here. THanks. -- John Fader 20:04, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)