Talk:Austria

Contents

1 Restructure, rewrite 2 POV speculation 3 Colors of the flag 4 Image of Kaprun 5 Fonts 6 Austrian roots of Adolf Hitler 7 country table: currency 8 Suggest 22 possible wiki links for Austria. 9 need help 10 The word "Austrian" should NOT be used to label the country's ethnic majority 11 Advertising spam? 12 Reverted vandalism 13 new template: subarticleof

Restructure, rewrite

I've restructured and rewriten some parts of the article. I stop now, however I want to point out that the article is in desperate need of

• a more detailed history section (especially 19th and 20th century)
• an expanded Religion section
• Education/Social situation etc. sections Themanwithoutapast 05:05, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

POV speculation

To meet increased competition from both EU and Central European countries, Austria will need to emphasize knowledge-based sectors of the economy, continue to deregulate the service sector, and lower its tax burden.

This seems rather POV speculation. Who added this? Is it from the CIA fact book? If so, perhaps it should be attributed. Mr. Jones 10:47, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Colors of the flag

What do the colors mean??

If you mean the flag. Then it's the flag. Mintguy

I read that it referred to one ancient Emperor wearing a white tunic into battle. When he was finished, his tunic was so colored red by blood that only the white band where his belt was was left. Does anybody know anything about this? -- Zoe

I can confirm that (i'm Austrian ; ) --Stefankoegl 18:20, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've heard that too. Danny 03:23 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)

I feel stupid now. Mintguy

Zoe is right about the legend (not about the "Emperor" bit though); see Third Crusade (where the Austrian participant is not mentioned) and http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.encyclop.b/b486228.htm;internal&action=_setlanguage.action?LANGUAGE=en . --KF 05:52 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)

Image of Kaprun

Hi Adrian, I find the image of the Austrian town Kaprun really nice, but why did you put it on the "Austria" page? I don't see any relation to the article. Fantasy 08:11 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi! from Adrian. I am extremely puzzled by your message. Kaprun is in Austria, and the article is called Austria!! I had imagined that a pic actually of an Austrian town would be nice to look at on the Austrian main page, as well as all the tables and facts. Evidently I was wrong and I'll remove it. Best Wishes Adrian Pingstone 08:25 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Sorry Adrian, you got my question wrong. I was not complaining, I find the image really nice and I am really happy to find more of them in the future. I just thought there could be somewhere in the article mentioned, why this image is there and what special meaning this image has for Austria. I also find it sometimes sad, that articles are so "trocken" (=dry?), some additional things to make it look more interresting are surely of help. Fantasy 09:16 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

OK, Fantasy, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think a little piece about Kaprun or Austrian churches or what's in the image is the purpose of the Austria article. It's simply to give the facts about the country. Thanks for putting the picture back, it was only intended as eye relief from all the other dry facts and to show a fairly typical Austrian town. Maybe one day there will be a Kaprun page then I can move the pic over (perhaps I'll write it).
I've also illustrated the Kaprun disaster, that's my wife in the foreground.

All the best Adrian Pingstone 09:47 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Great, I am happy that we have the same point of view (specially on the "dry" topic ;-) If you want to show with this picture a "typical Austrian town", so I suggest that we just say so. I will do that, ok? Fantasy 09:55 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Excellent change to the caption, I like it a lot better now. I'm sorry I misunderstood you before.

Adrian Pingstone 13:04 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Fonts

Is it just me, or does it look like the two words of "Republik Österreich" have different fonts? RickK 06:00, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)

No it's not just you - that's a weird problem. Fixed! Dysprosia 06:05, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Austrian roots of Adolf Hitler

Why the heck isn't Hitler listed under 'Well-known Austrians'? I'm pretty sure he's well known. mSprout

See the main article, there you will find Hitler et al. It is hard to choose a few "most important" austrians to be listed in Austria#Well-known_Austrians. I think you may change it as you like, until there is some objection. – Hokanomono 10:17, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

country table: currency

Is it really necessary to state in the table, that prior to 1999 the Schilling was Austria's currency? IMPOV the table ought to give nothing more than a concise overview. We might want to put this information somewhere in the main body of the article. Gugganij 07:47, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

I was just wondering the same -- either we should just mention the euro, or else for consistency we should mention all the currencies used in the Republic of Austria - the Austro-Hungarian krone until 1923 and the Reichsmark between 1938 and 1945... -- Arwel 00:31, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree, mentioning historical currency doesn't fit the purpose of the infobox. -- Naive cynic 01:26, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

Suggest 22 possible wiki links for Austria.

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Austria article:

• Can link Latin name: ...ire of [[Charlemagne]]. Interestingly the derivation of the Latin name from the original Old German gives rise to the use of ''Aus... (link to section)
• Can link classical Latin: ...the use of ''Aust-'' for 'east', rather than 'south', as in classical Latin.... (link to section)
• Can link 13th century: ...s under the rule of the [[Babenberg]]s from the 10th to the 13th century. The Babenbergs were then succeeded by the [[Habsburg]]s, w... (link to section)
• Can link whose line: ...y. The Babenbergs were then succeeded by the [[Habsburg]]s, whose line continued to govern Austria until the [[20th century]].... (link to section)
• Can link monetary system: ...]], Austria joined the [[European Union]], and the [[Euro]] monetary system in [[1999]].... (link to section)
• Can link social-democratic: ...h has 183 directly-elected members. After three decades of social-democratic ([[SPÖ]]) participation in government, a right-wing coaliti... (link to section)
• Can link right-wing: ... social-democratic ([[SPÖ]]) participation in government, a right-wing coalition was formed in [[2000]], consisting of the conserv... (link to section)
• Can link conservative People's Party: ...ht-wing coalition was formed in [[2000]], consisting of the conservative People's Party ([[Austrian People's Party|ÖVP]]) and the right-wing Freedo... (link to section)
• Can link Freedom Party: ... Party ([[Austrian People's Party|ÖVP]]) and the right-wing Freedom Party ([[Austrian Freedom Party|FPÖ]]). However, after some turmo... (link to section)
• Can link landslide victory: ...n the elections of [[November 24]], [[2002]], the ÖVP won a landslide victory (42.3% of the vote), whereas the FPÖ was reduced to a mere ... (link to section)
• Can link Die Grünen: ...18 seats FPÖ ([[Austrian Freedom Party]]) (10.1%) *17 seats Die Grünen ([[Austrian Green Party]]) (9.47%)... (link to section)
• Can link Vice Chancellor: ...ain with Wolfgang Schüssel (ÖVP) as Federal Chancellor. His Vice Chancellor was [[Herbert Haupt]] (FPÖ) until replaced by [[Hubert Gorb... (link to section)
• Can link federal republic: ...ve divisions == ''Main article: [[States of Austria]]'' A federal republic, Austria is divided into nine states, or ''[[States of Aust... (link to section)
• Can link above sea level: ...e highest mountain is the [[Grossglockner]], at 3798 meters above sea level, followed by the [[Wildspitze]] (3774 m). ... (link to section)
• Can link market economy: ... [[Economy of Austria]]'' Austria, with its well-developed market economy and high standard of living, is closely tied to other [[Eur... (link to section)
• Can link standard of living: ...' Austria, with its well-developed market economy and high standard of living, is closely tied to other [[European Union]] economies, esp... (link to section)
• Can link service sector: ...ge-based sectors of the economy, continue to deregulate the service sector, and lower its tax burden.... (link to section)
• Can link ethnic group: ...Austria]]'' German-Austrians, by far the country's largest ethnic group, form between 85% and 89% of Austria's population. Around t... (link to section)
• Can link minority group: ...(Gastarbeiter) and their descendants also form an important minority group in Austria.... (link to section)
• Can link Austro-Bavarian: ...cts. All of the dialects in the country, however, belong to Austro-Bavarian groups of German dialects, with the exception of the dialec... (link to section)
• Can link Press Freedom: ...idays in Austria]] *[[Reporters without borders]] Worldwide Press Freedom Index 2002: Rank 26 out of 139 countries (three-way tie)... (link to section)
• Can link information system: ...or Education, Science and Culture] Hyperwave-based cultural information system, a bit like a moderated culture wiki.... (link to section)

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:25, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

need help

my daughter is doing a project on Austria and we need to find the national animal,sport,flower,etc.Any help would be appreciated

This sounds like a very superficial project. Probably Wikipedia is too sophisticated for questions like that. Some suggestions:

• Animal: none in particular. What about a grilled chicken, or a pork sausage? :-)
• Sport: definitely alpine skiing
• flower: maybe Edelweiss? Martg76 20:28, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

An animal could be the "Milka Kuh", a violet cow, maskot for an Austrian chocolate company.

See: de:Milka-Kuh, Milka (http://www.milka.de/) --Andreas Ipp 04:00, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I couldn't find any information confirming that Milka is Austrian. Is it Austrian? – Hokanomono 12:52, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I thought so, but it might also be Swiss. Probably it is swiss, since its founder Suchard is swiss... --Andreas Ipp 10:36, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

What about Lipizzan? – Hokanomono 12:52, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You are right, white horses are better than violet cows. :-)

I made a new page Spanish Riding School since it was missing...

From Vienna I also find: "the Vienna Boys' Choir (Wiener Sängerknaben), Wiener Schnitzel, Sachertorte, and various pastries. Viennese cafes claim to have invented the process of filtering coffee from the captured baggage after the second Turkish siege of 1683." --Andreas Ipp 10:36, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The word "Austrian" should NOT be used to label the country's ethnic majority

Somebody has repeatedly changed the description of the largest ethnic group in Austria to simply "Austrians". This use of the word is completely misleading and incorrect, a simple look at other references on Austria will confirm this. There is simply no such thing as an "Austrian" ethnicity alone. Before the end of the second world war most Austrians clearly identified as ethnic Germans. Although it is clearly insensitive to label modern Austrians as ethnic Germans, it still does not make any sense to create an Austrian ethnic label on Wikipedia when it exist virtually nowhere else. The original phrase that was used in this article was "German-Austrians". I personally find this term a bit too complicated and would recommend the use of a more sensitive label. My last suggestion and edit for this subject was the term "Germanic-Austrians". Another posibility would be "Austrians of Germanic descent". But the fact remains Austrian has not ever been commonly used as and still is not (even six decades after the Second World War) an ethnic label.

Here is how other references handle the issue...

CIA World Factbook: Austria - Ethnic groups: German 88.5%, .... Lonely Planet: People: 97% Germanic origin, 2% Slovene & ..... Encyclopedia Britannica: population, ethnically Germanic......

I suggest the use of the term "Germanic-Austrians", which is in line with many other references and avoids the insesitive labeling of Austrians as "ethnic-Germans". I would also suggest that the person who keeps changing the term to simply "Austrians", join the discussion and give their reasons.

--80.128.37.75 21:51, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)FrederikM

I added a new section, an introductory text, to the demographics sections, for the sake of clarity. I as someone who is half Austrian and has lived in English-speaking countries for much of my life, am aware of how confusing the issue of Austrian nationality is to many people outside of the country, i.e are they Germans or not?, How was Hitler German and Austrian?, etc. Therefore I think it is important to have the text I placed the demographics section that quickly explains the historical background briefly and the current situation. If anyopne has any objection please let me know. I do however feel that this will make the article clearer and is a neccesary piece of information in a reference text about Austria and I beleive it belongs at the beginning of the demographics section and NOT in history.

FrederikM-80.128.37.75 21:51, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The use of Austrian as the name of an ethnic group raised my brow as I read this article, too. To me, Austrian describes geography and nationality (in a political sense), not ethnicity. Regionally, German-speaking Austrians are at least as different from one another as Germans are from one another, and generally speaking, share more culturally with Bavarians than Bavarians do with the rest of Germany. Austrians, the vast majority of them anyway, are ethnic Germans. That said, I also see no reason to make it "politically correct" by saying "Germanic Austrians" or "German-Austrians". I think one ought to expect the reader to know in what sense the word German is being used. It has nothing to do with what government issued their passport. For the last sixty years, the idea of a German national/ethnic identity has become nearly taboo, with regional pride and regional rivalries filling the vacuum. That doesn't mean a German ethnicity doesn't exist. --Trweiss 22:07, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Trweiss I agree with you on the subject of being "politically correct" to some extent but I do beleive it is totally neccesary for the simple reason that this is an open encyclopedia. The original word used in the article (and I was one of the first to expand the demographics section here) was "German-Austrian" and that was in my opinion a perfectly acceptable term but it ended up getting repeatedly deleted, my guess is mostly by Austrian visitors. The use of the term "German" alone is really not an option for the simple reason that this page will be visited by many people with little or no knowledge of Austrian and German history, so the term would lead to a considerable of confussion even if it is placed in quotation marks and accompanied by an explanation. The term "German" should also not be used to avoid offending a good amount of the Austrian visitors to this site. As someone with an Austrian passport, I know how sensitive the subject is to some Austrians. Personally I think the term "Germanic-Austrians" is an acceptable comprimise that is both in line with other English-language references and avoids the incorrect use of the word "Austrian" as an ethnic lable.

FrederikM--80.128.52.254 22:56, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Germanic" (as used by LP and EB) is best. It clearly indicates an ethnic origin not a nationality. "Germanic-Austrian" is unnecessarily verbose. Mr. Jones 10:47, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I'd like to delete this:
  

The issue of Austrian nationality and ethnicity was throughout recent centuries and remains to this day a sensitive issue and a topic of dispute. Before the end of the Second World War, most of Austria's population were clearly self-identified ethnic-Germans, who considered themselves part of a larger German Volk (ethnic nation), together with the other German-speaking-populations of Europe. A strong distinct Austrian national identity has emerged since the mid-twentieth century and most Austrians now no longer identify themselves as "Germans". In modern Austria only a small minority of the population, mostly but not entirely people with conservative or far right political views, advocate a pan-German ethnic identity for German-speaking Austrians.

1. I don't think it is necessary to make an attempt at describing Austrian national identity problems in this article at all.
2. This above text does not do the job
3. the above text is pov - not many Austrians would describe or would have described themselves as 'German' or 'Germanic', because the cultural differences are large, and 'Bavarian' would probably be more acceptable
4. slavic influences in the east are and were important
5. the west is allemanic in culture, and historically had more of a tendency towards Swizzerland than Germany
6. the federal character and the diversity is obscured, f. i. Tyroleans would see themselves as Tyroleans first and foremost, and would certainly find it absurd to be called 'germanic'.
7. German sources equivalent to the CIA factbook talk of 90,7 % Austrians (Fischer Weltalmanach 2001), just for the record.

I don't think it is necessary to make an attempt at discribing Austrian national identity problems in this article at all, and would like to delete the above quoted text.--Fenice 18:16, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Advertising spam?

Hi,

Last night I discovered that my submission on this page was identified as spam - * Austrosearch (http://www.austrosearch.at/) Bilingual Austrian Search engine and Directory (German, English)

I sent an inquiry with the moderator that removed it but I feel that maybe I posted the link without first inquiring the moderators regarding it's inclusion as an external link on this page. I have run Austrosearch for the last 7 years at a loss out of my own pocket, thus I feel calling my post spam to be unfair as it is more of my self appointed charity work for a country with one of the world's highest living standards. The other websites already listed as external links are no more nor less relevant to Austria than Austrosearch. Other websites have been very kind to my work promoting Austria such as Dmoz was below.

Austrosearch is listed in Dmoz under the following categories.

1. Regional: Europe: Austria: Guides and Directories (1 match)
2. World: Deutsch: Computer: Internet: Suchen: Verzeichnisse: Österreich (1)
3. World: Deutsch: Computer: Internet: Suchen: Suchmaschinen: Österreich (1)

I submit that I may have my own political views on Austria and those are kept in the features section. I do not filter submissions based on political affiliations, only on relevance that the websites included in the directory have some direct basis relating to Austria. Austrosearch crawls, indexes, and caches for the public's benefit hundreds of News articles daily in German and in English.

Kindest Regards, Jason

I am not certain for how long this will remain on as a top result, but I did a check for websites that link to Austria - Wikipedia and my website (http://www.austrosearch.at) was the first search result on msn
1-10 of 1,423 containing link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria -site:wikipedia.org (http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=link%3Ahttp%3A//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria+-site%3Awikipedia.org).

Today I discovered the #wikipedia irc channel (irc://irc.freenode.net/wikipedia) and found folks to be very informative and more than willing to let me know what got my site initially removed. I acknowledge now after those discussions that it would not be appropriate if I were to submit the link to the Austria - Wikipedia page. Nevertheless it is my hope that someone find it of merit to be added as Austrosearch (http://www.austrosearch.at) works hard at it's mission as a non partisan source and record of information and fact directly pertaining to Austria. Regards,
Austrosearch 23:07, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Body of a reply to an email sent by Jason:

Yes, I removed your link for the following reasons:

1. Policy: See Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_mirror_or_a_repository_of_links.2C_images.2C_or_media_files

2. Your link was placed in a position on the list suggestive of the behaviour of a spammer, i.e. at the top of the list, ahead even of those of the Bundeskanzleramt and the Austrian National Tourist Office.

3. At the time, the link to your user page was showing red, and you had very few contributions (indeed, I think none other than to austrosearch.at), which again is suggestive of a newly-arrived spammer's behaviour -- it's a good idea to build up a profile as a contributor of useful edits to the body of articles, which will help to allay fears of you being a spammer.

If I misjudged you, then you have my apologies. On the information available at the time, and given the need to make a swift decision while monitoring edits to over 2000 articles, I think I acted properly. If you wish to reinstate the link at a less-prominent position in the list, then I will not remove it again, though I see from Talk:Austria that others on IRC have given you reasons why the link may have been removed, so someone else might still do so.

Incidentally, it was not necessary for you to seek out one of my actual email addresses to contact me -- most users like myself have an option set in their preferences to display an "email this user" option in the navigation bar to the left of their user page. Even quicker would have been for you to leave a note on my User talk:Arwel Parry page!

End of quote.

• -- Arwel 23:47, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

---

Being a new contributor to Wikipedia is definately a learning experience. Being a member of several open source communities I must say I am a bit embarrased how things started out. I think it really should be considered to warn folks such as myself wishing to contribute to wikipedia that starting off adding your own link is definately the wrong first move.
Thanks for your newbie tolerance!
Jason Austrosearch 00:37, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with your link. I've re-added it. Mr. Jones 10:57, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Reverted vandalism

I reverted 213.132.117.4's vandalism. People really need to grow up. =\ --Kross 09:36, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

new template: subarticleof

I have replaced a few substituted instances of the template {{Main}} by {{seesubarticle}}. This because the accompanying template {{seemain}} was hopelessly confusing with Main. I have placed the accompanying template {{subarticleof}} on the according subarticles. For feedback and suggestions please visit Template talk:seesubarticle and Template talk:subarticleof. Thanks --MarSch 11:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)