Talk:Aragon

"In speaking of the reign of Henry IV, present-day historians usually call the kingdom the "Navarre-France Confederation" or, some of them, simply "Navarre-France," since it was the Navarre kings that inherited the French Crown and not the other way around." User:Wetman

In the text there is a confution between the Aragon Kingdom & the Corona de Aragón (I ignore the correct term in English). The first was independent under 1714 (fisrt under the power of the House of Barcelona and later under the power of the king of Spain) and never rules in Catalonia, Balearic Islands, Valencia... the second was the name of Aragon Kingdom, Catalonia, Balearic Islands.... under the power of the same person until 1492. Llull 19:50, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

The "Crown of Aragon" is the second term you're looking for. The first would be the "Kingdom of Aragon". So the crown of Aragon consisted of the Kingdom of Aragon, the Kingdom of Valencia, Catalonia (the County of Barcelona), the Balearic Islands (Kingdom of Majorca?), the Kingdom of Sardinia, and the two Sicilian kingdoms. The last three were lost by the treaties ending the War of the Spanish Succession, and the first four were incorporated more fully into a central Spanish administration, although I don't think it's accurate to say that there was a Kingdom of Spain until the Napoleonic intervention in the 19th century - there was no official title of "King of Spain" before that, although the term was used colloquially. john

Well, the term was used more that colloquially. "Juan el Hermoso" was who began to use this term. And yes, the Balearic Islands were the Kingdom of Majorca. I won't correct the differences between the crown and the Kingdom because of I'd introduce bugs. Llull 06:48, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

It may have been used, in the same way that James I and VI of England and Scotland called himself "King of Great Britain," but it was not an official title until 1808. I'm not sure what you mean about introducing bugs. john 06:56, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

At any rate, I think you're right that the article conflates the region of Aragon with the whole lands of the Aragonese Crown which were in personal union with Castile from 1479. Not sure how to deal with this. john 06:32, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Present-day historians usually call the kingdom the "Catalan-Aragonese Confederation" or, some of them, simply "Catalonia-Aragon". Barcelona was the center of what was in many ways a Mediterranean Empire, ruling the Mediterranean Sea and setting rules for the entire sea (for instances, in the Llibre del Consolat del Mar (in Catalan). There was never something as Catalonia-Aragon or the Catalan-Aragonese Confederation. The union between Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia and Majorca was allways called the "Corona de Aragón" (without any Catalonia in front or behind). I don't know who has introduced those other names in history books but I have my suspicions. As for Barcelona being the "center" of the "empire", well the union between the different kingdoms was quite loose. Valencia and Naples were very important trade cities too. To say that Barcelona was the center is simply wishful thinking. I think there is a tendency to project the importance of modern Barcelona into the past.

You are probably right there. Chameleon 12:18, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

While Barcelona was the center of the Crown of Aragon administration, it is true that links among Catalonia, Valencia and Aragon were very loose. This claim about the importance of Barcelona city is probably exaggerated and should be editted out, since it belongs better to Barcelona article. I suggest that history of the Crown of Aragon should be explained in Aragonese Empire while the relationship between Kingdom of Aragon and Crown of Aragon belongs here. IMHO, this would prevent confusion. --62.81.27.241 17:34, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)