Talk:Anti-American sentiment

Better photo?

The NYC protest is a poor choice, since most of the protestors are presumably Americans. How about a photo of protests in South Korea or France or Middle East? They have much more violent protests replete with flag burning and effigies.

If you have a photo that is not copyrighted go ahead. However with this photo there are no such issues, because I took it myself. In addition I think it is a prime example of Anti-American sentiment - if you read the article you will find many points of criticism that are directed to the policy of the Bush administration. Themanwithoutapast 13:57, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I am still a little bit unconfortable with the photo as well (though, sorry for clumsily removing it in the first place). As it is, it sort of sends the message in the first place that anything that is not agreed with the deeds of the US government is "anti-American". This is a very dangerous and slippery tendency, reminiscent of McCartysm and negating everyting remotely democratic. I would thus agree that a photograph of some Middle-East protesters burning a US flag, for instance, would be more adequate far far. Rama 12:02, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I concur - if you find a better photo (flag burning, etc.) that is NOT copyrighted (really hard to find) then go ahead and replace this one. However, as long as this is not the case, the current photo should not be deleted, because it is on-topic. The term anti-americanism was coined by those who adhere to the Bush administration and applied to everyone who critizises the current American government - to Americans as well as to foreigners - in a "If you are not with us you're against us" mentality. Themanwithoutapast 23:04, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Why no sections on any Middle Eastern countries?

Surely there ought to be sections on anti-American sentiments in Saudi Arabia and, say, Israel, at least. Mr. Billion 04:51, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

--~~piccolo-for whatever reason i dont have a problem with this article. It's not the same sort of crap I see on other nations; or perhaps i just have more sense of humor about this one because it's my own nationality.

Anti-Americans in Britain

I'm British (I prefer English Myself) and I wouldn't describe myself as Anti American. I have nothing against American people I just disagree with the American government and if you look at American history you'll find its very hypocritical, but "Anti-Americanism" is largely misunderstood - Especially in Western European countries but the media in these countries ignores the fact that America is a colonial power and a war-mongering militaristic state with unacceptable nuclear capabilities. And American children are tought that America is the best country in the world and that people in other countries are denied freedoms that those in America have that is 'Grade A' Bullshit. I think there should be a page on ordinary people in other countries as it normally concentrates on the governments opinion(How many british people in Wikipedia)!

Reply to that: I'm American but live in England and I'm pretty much the same as you. I'm obviously not against the American people - I just don't like the American culture. In American schools, they don't tell us that we're better, but that's the impression they give. Atleast that's the impression I got (I'm 14, by the way). They make it seems like we're more free than other countries. We are more free than many countries, but not all countries, such as the ones in Western Europe. Even before I was interested in politics and stuff like this, when I came to England for the first time, I began to wonder why America was so proud of being free, when it seemed like lots of countries in Western Europe were more free (i.e. less censorship). Hmm... Not sure what the point of writing this was...

Reply to the starter of this section: It's pretty pathetic. You don't know anything about Americans, yet you feel qualified to tell the world what we are. As an American I can tell you first hand that we are not taught that we are the best country in the world. This is coming from an American who even took classes such as JROTC, which I'm sure your uneducated mind believes to be the part of dark heart of jingoism. The concept of the United States being superior is not implied in the school system, either.

I also find it amusing that you call the United States a "war mongering country with unacceptable nuclear capabilities." Clearly you know nothing of the efforts both Russia and the United States have undergone in the dismantling of nuclear stockpiles. You also seem quite ignorant of the fact your own country has its own nuclear arsenal--which has enough nuclear weapons to glass Europe or North America! For shame.

In this context, you not only are ignorant of the nature of the United States, but you also have negative stereotypical views of Americans themselves. You say anti-Americanism is misunderstood, but given your lack of knowledge and your prejudices, I have to wonder.

For every bad thing the US does, you can give an example of another country which has done the same thing. So what? That doesn't mean America shouldn't be criticized, especially since it is constantly proclaiming itself to be the gold standard for freedom and democracy. Its leaders are also constantly criticizing other countries for having nuclear weapons, so the hypocrisy goes both ways. Cadr 13:38, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I find it strange that the anti-American types refuse to be critical of their own stance. Isn't it extremely easy to blame the US for every ill of the world and systematically distrust its every motive when you are a Brit, European or whoever? This reeks of simple nationalism. Yet it is a rare US critic who is cautious about a knee-jerk criticism of the US which approached xenophobia. I myself am critical of the government, yet don't need to resort to ugly stereotyping of Americans as stupid, fat, warmongering cowboys or whatever the fashionable charicatures are. And I find it sad that Europeans especially, who have a dark history themselves with regard to hatred of one minority group after another --- Roma, Jews, religious minorities -- that they are unable to be more critical of their own biases.

Merger

I have re-merged Anti-Americanism with Anti-American sentiment. Anti-Americanism (also Anti Americanism sans hyphen and "Hostility towards America") now re-direct here. The introduction has been expanded to include the critical point of the old Anti-Americanism article: that critics of the term see it as a propaganda tool to stifle criticism. I may actually include a new sub-heading about the propaganda thing as the Anti-American article went into great detail on the point (someone else can do this if they feel not enough of that article is included here). Also expanded on the history of the concept.

Fire away... Marskell 12:35, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Perceived lack of culture

I'd like to say a few words about the section dealing with the "perceived American ignorance". It's all right. But, what Americans are very often reproached for (here in Italy, for example, or in France and in Germany) is not only ignorance of important notions; it's much more: it's a thorough lack of culture. Culture is much more than notions. For example, the problem is not only that some Americans do not know where, say, Italy is, or are likely to believe that Robespierre was a contemporary of Julius Caesar. The problem is that even those who know such things very well, and even many intellectuals, have no true sense of history and of its importance, of how it is complex and full of problems; they have no, or very little, sense of intellectual subtlety, no taste for distinctions; they are superficial, simplistic and ingenuous. This, at least, is a common opinion, especially among those who have received the traditionally European humanistic education. (Someone said - was it Albert Einstein? - that culture is what remains when one has forgotten everything; well, that thing is exactly what, in the opinion of a lot of people, Americans, even those who know plenty of notions, do not have; and, what is worse, they usually do not even suspect that such a thing exists, and is very important for individuals and nations.)

This is from an anthropological point of view, utterly absurd. All human beings are cultured. All human activity is based on 1) biology and 2) culture, ie. learned behavior passed from generation to generation. Hunter and gatherer societies that have relatively simple lives -- nothing like advanced IT technology nor operas -- are equally cultured. The uncritical view of Culture with a big C is, in my view, simple chauvinism, and typically European chauvinism -- the same chauvinism which led to the destruction of many of the aboriginal cultures they came in contact with. It seems all are uncultured barbarians except Europeans!

Some other common opinions about Americans: 1) Such a lack of culture, and of well digested thoughts, is often considered to be a consequence of the fact that, as the commong saying goes, "they've got no history", they haven't got a tradition. 2) Americans are considered to have a sort of "horror vacui": they must act, and so they tend to be rash and reckless. They're sometimes compared to boys or children, who can't keep still. This is what is implied when they're called "cowboys". 3) Furthermore, they're considered vulgar: this opinion is very common. In the opinion of a lot of people, and even of the man in the street, they don't understand beauty: they are said not to understand the difference between a work of art, or even great historical monuments, and the products of cultural industry (what the Germans call kitsch); they are said to have no taste, and no sense of moderation.

These are only some of the opinions that are common, especially in Europe, about the "perceived American ignorance": I might tell you much more (e. g. about the "puritan mentality", etc.) I don't want to offend anybody: as a matter of fact, these opinions do exist, not only among intellectuals. (And I often agree with them; but this is unimportant here.)

Admittedly, what Americans are reproached for does exist in Europe, too. But many people think that one of the causes of this cultural and intellectual decline of Europe is the servile imitation of America, and the importation of American films, songs, words, fashions, etc. This is called American "cultural imperialism". And the resulting society is called the "mass society", where everything is vulgar, and no cultural aristocracies exist. Some call this the "Americanization of the whole planet".

Sorry for my bad English. But perhaps somebody who writes English better than I do might write something in the "perceived American ignorance" section.

User:82.49.78.250

Did you have a point?--User:naryathegreat | (talk) 23:52, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

To say America lacks culture is not only false, but ignorant. America is arguably the country with the most culture in the entire world, though there is truth to the argument that we lack a uniform and strong culture. The fact that America is made of many different ethnic groups that each brought their own culture to their new country is enough evidence to disprove the argument of our lack of culture. That is the strength of America, the fact that we are made of perhaps the entire world combined. We are Italian, German, English, French, Chinese, Mexican, etc. And yet at the same time, we are all American, and will likely be assimilated into a larger culture given time. I know this because of the fact that I myself am Mexican-American. My family has been in the geographical United States for more generations than the majority of Caucasian Americans, since the area of the Southwest was taken over by the United States. The people of this region, my region, have gradually been assimilated. Neither of my parents speaks Spanish, and my maternal grandmother is a German from Frankfurt. America is far from the only country that could be attacked with such arguments. In Europe, there are huge problems with the integration and assimilation of immigrants from the Middle East, are there not? Specifically, with the fact that the new immigrants refuse to take on the culture of their new country and clash with said culture. The murder of Theo van Gogh by a Dutch-born Muslim extremist, the incidences of beatings of homosexuals in the Netherlands by youths of Morroccan extraction, the refusal of Muslim girls to abandon their headscarves in French public schools are all examples of disunity in cultures. The fact that our culture pervades Europe (for I think that is what bothers you, not that it pervades Africa or South America) is hardly our fault and something completely natural. The recent time was ours. It was simply our time to shine and dominate, no different from how Germany dominated the world of music during the Classic and Romantic time periods, or how Italy did before it. Such arguments that America has no history are foolish. The New World was discovered in 1492, and colonization by the great European powers commenced a few centuries afterwards, well before Germany or Italy were united as countries. If the argument that we Americans have no uniform culture, could the same argument not also be used for certain parts of Germany, or perhaps Italy? Because of my German blood and the fact that I speak the language, I know of the differences among each state, Bundesland, and how each region has its own distinct culture and dialect. Bavaria is still "Freistaat Bayern," the Free State of Bavaria, something not suggestive of cultural unity. Does this lessen a Bavarian's identity with Germany? Absolutely not. In fact, the stereotypical German is thought of as a Bavarian. The other stereotypes mentioned are just those, sterotypes. Just as Irishmen are stereotyped as drunks, Frenchwomen as whores, Greek men as homosexuals, Italians as Mafiosos, and Germans as fascists or devoid of taste, Americans are stereotyped in these fashions. By the way--"Kitsch" exists in English as well as in German.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:82.49.78.250"

If I offended you, I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to offend anybody, as I said. Unfortunately, I haven't got the time to write a long answer now, but I hope I'll be able to explain myself better after.

But, first of all, what I described was not necessarily (not always, not entirely) MY opinion: these are opinions that are fairly common here in Italy, and generally in Europe (and maybe also in other parts of the world, I don't know). And I think that, if one wants to write a short essay on critical opinions about the United States, these should be mentioned, too.

Furthermore, I'm afraid you are missing the point. With some explanations or distinctions, I agree with most, perhaps with all, of the things that you say. But it seems to me that the things that you say hardly ever answer the things that I wrote. I used the words "lack of culture", but I didn't mean "culture" in the ethnological, or anthropological, sense, as you seem to understand ("the American culture", or "cultures").

I used the word in its common meaning, i. e., in the meaning that we have in mind when we say that somebody is, or is not, a "cultivated (cultured) person": that is NOT only knowing plenty of notions, it's something that can't be easily defined, but certainly includes:

— the awareness that things are usually difficult, complicated, have many different aspects;

— and that, therefore, the task of understanding requires a great effort of intellectual subtlety, and many distinctions;

— a strong dislike, and refusal, of superficial, simplistic, statements, with no, so to say, light and shade effects;

— a genuine interest in history: the awareness that man is a historical being, and that a subtle understanding of the extremely various and complex conditions of his life (not only material, but especially spiritual life; not only of present life, but also of the past) is quite NECESSARY, both to understand and to act (for example, for a politician);

— the idea that, if it's necessary to act, one must think and talk a lot before: that study, reflection, and dialogue are very important; that our will must follow, not precede, our reason;

— a certain taste for art, literature, etc., with the awareness, again, that they can't be understood without an understanding (so to say, an empathetic understanding) of their historical setting;

— ... (Sorry, I'm in a hurry right now. But I have some other points in mind.)

So, "that is the question" (to use a stupid quote). It seems to me that Americans really have great problems with the preceding points.

I hope I've not been too confused. I would really be very glad if you would tell me your opinion. And, again, believe that I only want to talk, not to offend anyone.

And excuse me for my bad English and my mistakes.

(As for "kitsch", it's a German word, though it's also used in English and in other languages.)

User:Tom Hope

reply to that^ : Americans do have culture. Everyone has culture. Here is the definition of culture: "The complete way of life of a people: the shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterize a group; their customs, art, literature, religion, philosophy, etc.; the pattern of learned and shared behavior among the members of a group." Americans and everyone else has attitudes, values, goals, practices, customs, art, literature, religion, philosophy. American sayings say a lot about American philosophy, America obviously has lots of religious people (I don't think I need to explain), the "American Dream" could be a goal for some Americans, Americans do have art, literature, and the other things in that definition.

User:naryathegreat, do you even hear youself talk? You use the word "assimilate" as if your in the Borg collective. This is a fact of american ignorance, they think that everything they get involved with must be done "their way or no way". I am not saying that you yourself are ignorat, but by the way your talking is "a" reason why people around the world dislike americans. Our "culture" is baised more on "Must have" rather then the collective good of mankind. As this article says, we have the highest prison rate in the world, and the resources we use are more harmful to the environment and few in america want to clean up for the good of "progress".

--Admiral Roo 13:33, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Anti-Every country?

To respect true NPOV, the only way this page would be acceptable would be to creat an anti-country page for every country. Although I suspect that those pages would become just as dubious as this one. It could realistically NEVER come to a NPOV. SD6-Agent 14:38, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. As has been repeatedly noted in discussion, prevelance is the critical criteria for inclusion not this or that justification (or rejection) of the idea. That is, you may think the notion of Anti-Americanism over-blown or dubious personally, but it is often discussed and has become a part of political discourse to the extent that, say, anti-Swedish or anti-Ghanian sentiment has not. Put another way, even if anti-American sentiment doesn't exist as the dangerous prejudice it is sometimes made out to be, the idea of anti-Americanism certainly exists or we wouldn't have 13 archives of discussion on the topic. Over time, perhaps the consensus will emerge that anti-Americanism is largely a fiction created by conservatives and the article will come to reflect that.

I do think a few more anti- pages make sense (if they don't exist already). For instance, Sino-Japenese attitudes toward another, anti-French sentiment, anti-Russian sentiment in the West and former S.U., historical anti-British (Empire) attitudes etc. Marskell 06:55, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

But to what extent? Which countries deserve such a page and which don't? SD6-Agent 03:52, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As a sidenote, one can note that there at this time actually exists an embryonic (sort of) anti-Swedish article at Finnish-Swedish relations. It will, however, surely develop in a slow pace and without the passions typical for this article. :-) --Johan Magnus 14:24, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Re. which countries: those that have (or historically had) hegemonic economic, military etc. power. As noted, I certainly think Russia and Japan are justified (see recent news on the latter). I don't think we need a hard and fast definition but if you can think of any that seem justified add them and see how they fly.

I think a critical distinction is between one-to-one resentments (Khazikis don't like Tajikis) and international phenomena (a significant percentage of the global pop has a problem with the U.S.). Finnish-Swedish relations, for instance, is bilateral not international and thus isn't really an "anti-" article. To justify an article in the style of this one, the resentment or prejudice ought to be present in different global spheres at different times. For Japan say, you have the economic resentment that was so widespread in the West in the 80's and 90's, the still lingering antagonism of its WWII conquerees plus a thousand odd years of conflict with China and Korea. With Russia there's centuries of ambivalence among Western Europeans, American attitudes during the cold war and, of course, the obvious mistrust amongst East Europeans and Central Asians. As it stands, the only other article that I know of is Anti-Australian sentiment which is quite weak and hard to justify. Anti-French sentiment in the United States needs to be edited and pared down to Anti-French sentiment (you can see my comments there if you want to try :) Marskell 20:39, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

BUSH

I find it ridiculous how when many Americans are confronted with anti Americanism, they simply point the finger at Bush, but what they dont realise is that its not just Bush. There are all aspects about American culture and people that the world doesnt like. Bush is not someone that has always been around. People hated Americans long before Bush surfaced. Besides, the American people are a direct reflection of Bush and his regime. There are many people who voted him into power. Some may even say that Bush might be moderate compared to some other Americans who are much more conservative and ruthless than Bush. One of the reason why there is so much anti Americanism is because of the American imperialist attitude.

Who has the right to determine a foreign culture's culture? If you don't like American culture or society, then ignore it. There are too many people who want to control the lives of others, and hate anyone who lives or thinks differently. This is simple prejudice and chauvinism in my view, ie. "my own s--- don't stink!". The root of irrational anti-Americanism is, IMHO, cultural chauvinism, ie. anyone who thinks or lives not according to your rules is stupid, wrong or just evil. In europe, this view is something of a venerable tradition, since in the past native peoples and Jews and gypsies were the "barbarians". After a 1000 years of genocide, pograms and conquistadors, you would think Europeans would have learned to question their own prejudices and xenophobia.

NO! Most people in the world do not hate Americans as individuals! Why do you insist on disgracing your continent by giving people the impression that they hate Americans as individuals? Hating Americans is just as wrong as hating Jews or blacks! I mean, people do not choose to be American - so why should they be hated for it? As a matter of fact, some people hate being American - because they hate being hated for being American.

Thier is a find boundry between hating americans like one would hate jews, blacks, italans (sp?), and that of dislikeing the way we run our political, military, and cultur in the line of feeling that we are superior to everyone else. I don't dislike individuals (unless they do something so stupid like kill innocent people and animals), but as a collective, we are vary dangerous. Ever heard of "collective thought"? It is like a mob, when one or some start tossing stones at others and pluder houses and business, the "mob mentality" takes over. I find that prominate here in my homeland.

--Admiral Roo 13:44, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that I hate Bush and I am an American, and frankly I'm a little bit tired of people calling ME anti-american--172.162.211.22 03:15, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think part of the problem is that the US has fallen into the same trap as Nazi Germany. Disagree with Bush, and you're suddenly a traitor, unpatriotic, liberal and anti-American. It's easy to say "ignore American culture if you don't like it" when it is being shoved in your face on the TV, in the magazines and on your computer 24/7. I do choose to ignore American "culture" when I can - I use Linux, eat in Kochlöffel and watch more European films than I do American. The American film industry is capable of occasional flashes of genius in what seems to be a stream of moronic, brainless films, but many of these never leave the United States, because there's simply no money to be made in doing so. True American culture is not exported - the proper cowboy culture in the South, New Orleans, Independence Day celebrations as examples are what American culture means to me. McDonald's and such like does not constitute culture, just the desperate pushings of some desperate übercapitalists who seem to believe that money makes the world go round and pushing their substandard goods as "American" makes them a cultural icon. Unfortunately, they seem to have succeeded in making it appear that way. Jamyskis Whisper, Contribs 09:27, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

B-52

Could someone please clarify the statement, "a single B52 Stratofortresses costs more than the entire United Nations budget for a whole year?" The numbers I've dug up seem to imply otherwise. -Weltall

That must be a mistake. Perhaps the author of that sentence meant a B-2 Spirit. Though the author might mean that a B-52 costs more than the US budgest expenditures on the UN every year. I don't care to go doing the research but my guess is that it's a lot closer, but the real point is that the United States spends far more on its military that is required for self-defence and often bemoans its "unfair" dues in international bodies like the United Nations. Sentence might be factually inaccurate, but living in Canada I can tell you that I've had more than one conversation over the years about the US debt to the UN and how it's been played like violin by the US government. While this far from sums up the range of other opinions and reasons for anti-Americanism it's visible actions like non-payment of UN dues (and most especially the fact that many Americans have gone on the record supporting this behavior) that have driven the wedges into the natural cracks that are present in any relationship.

To a world that values internationalism and has bought into the vision of one planet united, even if it is just a fantasy the United States often seems very out of step with the rest of us. Certainly there are others, but if you lined up the major western powers and played that sesame street game "one of these things is not like the others" most non-Americans, and probably most Americans for that matter, would pick out the United States without much trouble, the only difference would be the reasoning why. Gabe 18:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the line as it's definitely an error--I've read 74 million in three places which is 1.5 orders of magnitude less than the U.N budget. Even the B-2 Spirit at 2+ Billion is less than the U.N. budget. I have encountered somewhere around 3 Billion for the U.N. a few times but this reflects the core functions and staff and doesn't include payouts for peacekeeping shouldered by individual member states. I also thought the comment was a little disingenuous. "In Great Britain, a comparison is frequently made to demonstrate US military excess..." If you tracked down the figures for British nuclear subs, its own airforce etc. I'm sure you'd find some pretty hefty figures.

Removed: "In Europe, frequent comparisons are made between militaristic American society and the militant Third Reich." This is an exaggerated throw-away line (too much of this article is, alas). Marskell 23:10, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

About the article itself...

Since this is supposed to be a talk page about the article on Anti-Americanism, rather than the never-ending vomit war that actually debating what anti-americanism *IS*, I would like to bring that in and of itself up.

I think that, honestly, that page is not remotely neutral for the following reasons:

1) There isn't near enough talk on the page about the debate itself, which honestly, is a bit of a point of contention between the various sides on anti-americanism debate anyways.

2) The use of statements like "the percieved hypocracy..." To those of us who are rather disenfranchised, the phrasing is such that it indicated that our opinions are invalid. (It is not real, only percieved.)

3) There is also a great lack of discussion about the ambassadorism of americans themselves. Any individual who goes to a forieng country is, in essence, an ambassador for his own. The "percieved" oulook by a good chunk of the world is that americans are rude, and a lot of that comes from thier tourists. Where is the discussion, (for both sides!) on that element?

4) Other statements within the document such as "The War on Drugs is also considered an oppressive activity by many who are socially liberal," are both overly broad, and come from an american point of view. To wit: very few are against the so-called "war on drugs," but many *are* against it's universality. Pro-marijuana movements, both within and without America are examples of people who are not against the war on drugs, they simply don't view marijuana as an item that should be a controlled substance. Beyond that "those who are socially liberal?" That absolutely scearms bias. To a resident raised in a socialist country, the view that the so-called "war on drugs" is misguided or inappropriate may not *BE* a libral view. Discussions about what is liberal or not in the context of americanism are simply always going to illicit cries of "this article is not neutral!"

5)Other examples of complete bollocks are the broad spectrum comments that say people are anti-american because of any one belief. An example: "American free speech law has also become an international issue ever since the rise of the Internet as a medium of communication. Since the United States has far reaching free speech protection (under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution), Internet service providers based there can be used to spread messages to other countries where these are banned for moral, religious or political reasons. From the U.S. perspective, many Americans dislike attempts by other countries to extend their jurisdiction to American defendants whose alleged defamatory speech acts occurred over the Internet and were not targeted only toward those countries." Well, frankly, that is very narrow, and makes america look like the hero for standing up for free speech. What many of us dislike about america is that it HAS laws like this, makes a huge international issue out of other countries pulling stunts like censorship, and then goes and pulls crap like this: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21256.

Simply put: the sheer diversity of complaints against america means you can not possibly sum it up in a nice neat little package. The article should talk about THAT fact, rather than try to delinate them. To be neutral, the article CAN'T delinate them, because it's virtually impossible to do so without sounding as though you are taking sides.

Anti-americanism is disliking america for any of a great number of reasons. It is used by all sides of the debate for propaganda purposes and is so controversial we'll never get a secure definition of what anti-americanism IS, without bieng drawn intot he fight itself.

My view on the article

I myself am an "american". However, I have longed to move to another country because I agree with alot of the stuff in this article. I don't think that this article is "non-neuatral". I live in america, and I can tell you that this is a land of intollerance. Many times have I been accused of things because I am "diffrent". I also see many who are americans in america are in fact not vary knowledgeable about other cultures. I am sure my statements may seem "non-neuatral", but having the background I have, I have seen irrogance in both the government and in may citizens run rampent (sp?).

And again I forgot my sig. --Admiral Roo 13:25, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

As an American I apologize for any intollerance you experienced. Now read that first sentence and see how ridiculous it is...I as a single person can not apologize for the actions of my fellow countrymen. I don't know you or your problems but can tell you that just because you have encountered bad PEOPLE in your life does not mean that the country itself is at fault. Try moving to France or Germany and you will encounter bad PEOPLE that live in beautiful and culturaly rich areas as well.

This entire article is sick and overwhelmingly prejudiced against a group of people who only share a common land-mass and desire to make the best for themselves, but we represent the cultures of the entire world. I would argue that of any country to ever exist, America is the culmination of every kind of person whether you be gay or straight, white, black, indian, etc, etc. People in other countries may dispise us and have unmitigated hatred for who we are but it doesn't mean that US individuals should have to put up with this when they travel to foreign lands. Frankly all of this talk about the american tourist is total BS as far as my personal experience travelling the world has shown me. I encounter this Anti-Americanism when I travel and it is totally hypocritical and wrong but the majority of my encounters are fun and enjoyable. I don't blame the country I'm travelling through for the jerks that hate me b/c I'm American. Stop the blatant sterotyping! JShultz

Having lived around the world, I say that people are essentially the same with regard to intolerance and selfishness. Accusing Americans, as if they are a unique human category, is ridiculous. And believe me -- intolerance is widespread, in every culture. Blaming only Americans of this seems discriminatory. Imagine 10 people are committing crimes, but the only one arrested is the black or Jewish or Asian one? What would you say? Fair???????

Not really that fair. But I would say in america, intollerance is more widespread then in any other part of the world. We are the largest place of capital punishment, have the largest prison population due to putting non-violent criminals behind bars rather then trying to rehabilitate them, and we are one of the few who ban gays from any sort of legal bond. Also, we are one of the few that disregard the environment, just look at us not signing the Koto (sp?) teraty.

Take a look at Iran/N. Korea and tell me they rehabilitate people or tolerate gays! Ridiculous to say America is the biggest offender or has the most widespread intolerance. We are a country composed of other countries and cultures, so people get in fights occaisionally over this stuff. Intolerant people are all over the globe, but rarley do you find such a diverse group in one place as in the US. Elsehwere you have a uniform mass of bigotted people living together and denouncing the "great satan" together. They may be idiots, but they do a good job of sticking by their guns as a group and of course they love each other because they all feel the same way about their uniform hatred of America. Anti-American feelings should be grouped under the subheading - Ignorant. As far as the environment goes, I think we have a ways to go here as well but you can't just put the breaks on the largest industrial super-power in the world. There are complexities far more subtle than simply failing to sign the Kyoto treaty, namely the millions of workers and their families who work in big business that are at the heart of the American economy (BTW, the senate rejected the treaty 95-0, so don't put all your misplaced blame on the Bush administration as many have been known to do). That is however typical of the uninformed who rant on and on about the US as the heartless overlord of the world...J Shultz 21:02, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and Iran and North Korea are part of the "axis of evil" if I remember, so America is striving to be just like them? I think the culture of intolerance in America stems from the same source as it does in some Middle Eastern countries - religious extremism. This is a subject that America has been trying to come to terms with for decades now, particularly since the hey-day of the KKK. The subject died down and Christian extremists were labelled as insignificant nutjobs in the 80s and 90s, at least until Bush came along, and suddenly the extremists had influence over the Senate and the White House. You are right, of course, in one respect - every country has its problems with bigots. Here in Germany we still have problems with Nazis (a minority, however, as laws are in place to keep them down). The Israelis in the past few years have had issues with extreme Zionists, although the Zionists have been weakened ever since Sharon decided to start taking other points of view into account. I don't think we need an introduction to Islamic Extremism. America, however, has done little to address the point of religious extremism in their own country. With regards to the environment, well, there's little to say about that. A population half the size of China, the world's second largest polluter, producing eight times as much pollution as them, says to me that something is wrong. As you say, the Senate rejected the treaty unanimously, suggesting that the problem with America is a much larger one that goes beyond the Bush administration - the problem that in the past 2-3 decades, America has turned from a democracy into an oligarchy. America's help would be welcome in producing a better world, but how much cleaning the muck off your own front door by being an example to the rest of the world instead of forcing ideals on other countries that America itself doesn't really appear to follow? Jamyskis Whisper, Contribs 09:41, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A good response with several valid points Jamyskis. Extremist religion really is a the heart of it, and I know that will just fire up more people in this debate. There is, of course, no way to ever wipe the religous biggots away, they are too entrenched. I was just discussing this with a friend, the cults evolve to religions and everyone thinks they are correct while at the same time hating (without thought) those who were not brainwashed as they were (my parents taught me about my God in his cloak and he must be the real deal, but your parents and their God with his robe are just wrong so I hate you). Blah! Extreme Christians hate Extreme muslims and there will be no thoughtful discussion, ever! Best the rest of us can do is work and think like logical people trying to make the best out of it. My original point with it all is that this article is totally crap and I was responding to the first poster who claims Americans are uneducated types. My point is that elements of every culture are that way. It's missing a good rebuttal that explains the fact that other countries feel this way because they MAY be misguided. That would be considered a NPOV violation while simply stating all the reasons America sucks is perfectly a-ok. I'm not saying the US is perfect, but some discussion of all the misplaced (religous) fanaticism would be nice. J Shultz 02:05, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Religion

One thing which I have heard numerous times and which is not explicitely stated in the article is that the US "way of living" religion is often seen as Freedom of religion, but not freedom from religion: one can chose any religion he wants (preferably a variant of Christianism -- and preferably a variant of protestantism if one wants to have fair chances to obtain high positions), but atheism, or even agnosticism, are not well tolerated.

This is especially observable when wealthy evangelists from the USA go on their "evangelisation" trip to Europe and start talking about religion to people in the streets, a subject widely regarded as very personal.

I don't know how this could fit in the article though (I'd rather discuss this here before). Rama 13:42, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Are you American? I ask that because it sounds like you have the common "I've heard America is this way" idea. I'm an American, live in a nice city with many friends in different social classes and with different backgrounds and I would say that religion is totally on the back-burner with people choosing whatever they like and not dropping it on others. I personally feel religion is for the most part a crock, and when I discuss that fact I get a wide variety of replies and thoughts, but nobody is trying to convert me. If I see a televangalist on TV I just turn the channel, no big deal. Now as far as the midwest gos, I can't really speak from experience but my idea is that the US as a Christian fundamentalist factory is WAY overblown in the foreign press. We get sterotyped as a caricature of what we are...like when you get a charcoal sketch of yourself at the beach and the guy draws your ears really big and has your head all mishapen to highlight your features, way overblown! I could say that I don't like all the German shit-porn videos that I know they are really into and that I should include a section on the Germany page about fecal-defecater-porn because it is so prevelant in their society when really that is kind of a personal thing, but I realize that Germany really isn't THAT into filming themselves shit on each other and I know it is an overblown viewpoint of Germans in America. Does that go too far to make a point? Sorry if I offended any Germans, totally for explanation sake :) Anyway, we need a rebuttal section first that highlights the fact that some of this is misconception propogated by ignorance of Americans and religous extremism too J Shultz 02:19, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Rama is perhaps unwittingly revealing a major root of anti-American sentiment abroad. Ignorance. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 02:23, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)