Talk:Age of the Earth

This article lacks information about the actual age of the Earth. That information should be put into the first paragraph. Also, it needs to be linked with the other articles we have about dating methods. AxelBoldt, Monday, April 29, 2002

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I did a general copyedit and more wikifying, and added some specific things. Since I know someone will ask, my source on Aristotle is a letter to the editor of Science a week or two ago. Also, if we're going to talk about religious ideas, we should probably have something on the Hindu yugas. Vicki Rosenzweig

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Seems to me that the Age of Earth page should link directly here, instead of a disambiguation page - what do you think? --Spangineer 21:38, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

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Why not add a "See Also" with links to Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism, Gap Creationism, Intelligent Design and whatever other articles there are related to other views on the issue? One doesn't even need to mention their points of view in the main article, just make the links available for those interested. --Spangineer 00:20, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

Invitation

Work is currently in progress on a page entitled Views of Creationists and mainstream scientists compared. Also currently being worked upon is Wikipedia: NPOV (Comparison of views in science) giving guidelines for this type of page. It is meant to be a set of guidelines for NPOV in this setting. People knowledgable in many areas of science and the philosophy of science are greatly needed here. And all are needed to ensure the guidelines correctly represent NPOV in this setting.  :) Barnaby dawson 21:33, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Criticism of Radiometric Dating and the "Old" Age of the Earth

Not everyone agrees with what is being said above. For example, there are many reasons to question Radiometric Dating, and whether or not it has any validity at all. For example, many artifacts containing Organic material found buried in supposedly "millions of years old" strata (such as carbonized wood, unfossilized or unmineralized wood -- that can be sawed with a saw or burned in a fire --, unfossilize or unmineralized Dinosaur Bones, etc) have been dated with the Carbon 14 Dating method, and, time and time again, the dates obtained are between about 7,000 years to 40,000 years. However there are many other reasons for questioning this method. For example, all of those "millions of years old" dates are obtained from Volcanic materials; however, there is no way to KNOW for CERTAIN what the original amounts present were. Then there is the problem of Mixing both mother and daughter products together while they are in a molten state. Then there is the problem of Leaching, re-chrystalization, and a host of others. The Links below provide the interested reader with LOTS more information.

• Is the Earth 4.5 Billion Years Old (http://www.unmaskingevolution.com/6-earthage.htm) This article takes a closer look at how the 4.5 Billion Year age for the Earth was arrived at, and why it cannot be trusted.

• The Case of the KBS Tuff (http://www.earthage.org/radio/The%20Case%20of%20the%20KBS%20Tuff.htm) This modified Letter, examines the well-ducumented Case of the KBS Tuff, and all of the Various methods that were used to "date" it, and also why the final (1.9 m.y.o.) result cannot be trusted any more than the first (220 m.y.o.) One.

• Radiometric Dating (http://www.earthage.org/radio/radiometric_dating.htm) This short paper examines the Uranium Lead Method, and provides Tables that show why Radiometric Dating cannot be trusted.

• The Radiometric Dating Game (http://www.trueorigin.org/dating.asp) This web site take a much closer look at Radiometric Dating and also explains in much detail why it cannot be trusted.

• More Bad News for Radiometric Dating (http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating2.html) Just what the title says.

• Stumping Old Age Dogma (http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/dogma.asp) Examines One of the many instances of Carbon Dating an organic piece of wood that was found in strata that was supposed to be many "millions of years old."

• What About Carbon 14 (http://www.earthage.org/radio/carbon14.htm)

• Excess Argon... (http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-307.htm) Takes a closer look at Potassium Argon Dating, and why it also cannot be trusted.

• Radiometric Dating: The Numbers Game (http://www.creationequation.com/RadiometricDating_TheNumbersGame.htm) Another close look at how the Numbers in this game are very often used to favor the Theory of Evolution over empirical science and objective reasoning.

--Truthteller 06:28, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This section has numerous problems, its pov (no clarifying or rebutal evidence provided), non-specific some places, has your name signed in the article and has far too many external links. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 06:38, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I believe that the entire "Article" section is POV, but feel free to rebut anything you like here, or to add any specifics that you feel are missing. As far as my name or external links, this is the "Discussion" page, not the article page. In other words, the statements above and the Links are meant to stimulate discussion of this topic, and hopefully some changes to the Main Article itself. --Truthteller 13:40, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You included your signature and links in the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Age_of_the_Earth&oldid=14731162) initially. As to specifics, any semblance of actually making a decent point would be a good start. Like explaining how these criticisms have been missed and are not understood by experts in the field, and have therefore led to gross errors in radiometric samples that are actually used and relied upon for scientific dating. If on the other hand these failures and numerous anomalies in radiometric dating are understood, and have even been uncovered and examined in detail by said experts; then they only serve to improve the methodologies reliability, rather than undermining it, since they know which samples are reliable. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 06:33, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There, I wrote a mediocre new section including some of your points; and as expected it has been sectioned and improved. Now you can't say I never did anything for you. (BTW, thx Vsmith.) - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 06:37, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not bad, though I'm sure someone will 'POV' it. Your statement that creationists lack understanding of dating techniques, and your mention of 'accurate results' are disputed by creationists.

To whomever does edit the section, please take a look at 'leading to sample preparation procedures being minimized.' Shouldn't this read something like 'but these are minimised by careful sample preparation procedures.' -- Ec5618 08:15, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

I'm sure your right about someone accusing it of being POV, but let's address your points. "Lack understanding", the sentence links it to what scientists say, not me, although I certainly agree with it. (evidence to that effect has been provided by Truthteller above) "Accurate results" is Vsmith's, not mine... but then again he has background in the subject. As to preparation, I believed the point Vsmith wanted to emphasize is how modern preparation has changed from the past... but I do see what you're talking about, since it sounds like they are being lazier. Thanks. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 14:51, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)