Star Trek versus Star Wars
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Star Trek versus Star Wars typically refers to an ongoing dispute between fans of the Star Trek and Star Wars franchises. Primarily an online phenomenon, the debate emerged from its roots in the Usenet culture to spawn several websites and online communities.
A post on a newsgroup or Web board might pose a question such as:
- "Which would win? The Enterprise-D or a Star Destroyer?"
In July 1997, the alt.startrek.vs.starwars (news:alt.startrek.vs.starwars) newsgroup was created to try to shift these (often heated) debates off the more "mainstream" Star Trek and Star Wars groups. As of 2004, some 265,000 posts had been made to the group. One of the earliest threads, discussing the stereotypical question provided above, dragged out over 1,200 posts without reaching any kind of conclusion.
Some problems faced by those who enjoy indulging in such analyses include the internal inconsistencies in both fictional universes, definitions of which "evidence" should be acceptable from the plethora of books, comics, and other published materials, and how (or even if) real-world physics and engineering should be used to analyse this evidence.
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Major issues
One of the issues in the debate has to do with technological considerations: Star Wars and Star Trek are set in entirely different universes with technology that are completely mismatched. Star Trek is trying to represent the society and technology of a human civilisation not so distant from now, while Star Wars is set "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away", which gives it more liberty, in a sense.
Another issue has to do with form: Both groups claim that their opus has better writers and accuse the other of dire writing and bad scripts, to say the least. Form discussions also cover the origin of one side in broadcast television and the origin of the other side in feature film production.
Occasionally, the debate delves into more philosophical or political territory over motivation on the part of the creators and writers. In 1999, David Brin, a famous science fiction author wrote a number of very critical articles (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html) on The Phantom Menace, Star Wars and George Lucas, for the website salon.com. Brin focused on what he called an "agenda" on the part of Lucas, and treated the SW vs. ST debate from a mostly political point of view. Michael Wong wrote a response to Brin's article here (http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/HateMail/Brin.html).
Canon policy
An issue that affects the nature of the debate is canon, that is, which sources are considered "official". Both Paramount and Lucasfilm have issued statements as to what is considered canon in their respective universes.
Paramount
Paramount's policy is that only the live action movies and TV shows are Star Trek canon. The novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture is not considered canon by Paramount, even though it was written by Gene Roddenberry himself.
Lucasfilm
Lucasfilm's canon policy for Star Wars is more complex and dealt with in Star Wars canon.
The AOTC:ICS and the debate
Technology-related debate took an important turn in 2002 due to the publication of Attack of the Clones: Incredible Cross Sections, better known by its acronyms AOTC:ICS, EP2:ICS, or E2ICS.
When the book first published, some debaters, primarily on the Trek side, doubted the accuracy of the book. Many pro-Trek debaters took to questioning the author's objectivity, scientific competence, intelligence, and personal integrity (http://www.skayhan.net/ASVS-HN/classic/ICS.htm). Adding fuel to the fire were the thanks offered by Saxton in the Acknowledgements section of his book of several prominent debaters, leading to furious allegations that the book itself was written in order to win the debate. Defenders of the ICS said that Saxton had written exactly what LucasFilm had hired him to write - no more, no less - and was eminently qualified to do so with his Ph. D and long studies of Star Wars.
After the dust had settled, the communities had divided into two groups, mostly identified by the Wars and Trek party lines:
First, those who accepted it as accurate. Almost all the debaters on the Star Wars side of the field took this position, holding that the book had settled the debate for good. Some of the debaters on the Trek side did as well; of these, many retired from the field.
Second, those who did not accept the book as being accurate. Most of the remaining pro-Trek debaters would fall into this camp. Some, such as Robert Anderson, the author of ST-v-SW.net, simply refused to consider it as even being canon, and for that reason not even admissible to the debate. Others maintained that the ICS contradicted other sources of equal or higher authority, and should be ignored for that reason.
References
- Saxton,Curtis John, Hans Jenssen, Richard Chasemore Star Wars: Attack of the Clones: Incredible Cross Sections Dorling Kindersley Publishing, 2002. ISBN 0789485745
External links
- alt.startrek.vs.starwars (http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&as_ugroup=alt.startrek.vs.starwars) The newsgroup created to debate this issue, it has suffered a steady loss in membership since about 2001, as the consensus there switched to one of decisive Star Wars advantage. Most of the former regulars have moved on to other web-board communities such as Stardestroyer.net or Spacebattles.com.
- the alt.startrek.vs.starwars newsgroup FAQ (http://www.sfdebris.com/faq.html) - Maintained by Chuck Sonnenburg.
- Daltonator.net (http://www.daltonator.net) - Rob Dalton's site hosts two vs.-debate-related sections: the alt.startrek.vs.starwars Fanfic Archive, which contains nearly sixty megabytes of Star Trek versus Star Wars crossover fanfiction, and the Frequently Unasked Questions (FUQ), a collection of SWvST cultural idiosyncrasies and anecdotes gathered mainly from alt.startrek.vs.starwars (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=alt.startrek.vs.starwars) and the stardestroyer.net forums (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net). Reading most of this site's content does not require knowledge of SW or ST esoteria, as it focuses more on the personalities and culture of those that participate in the debates.
- forum.spacebattles.com (http://forums.spacebattles.com) - A website showing fan based movies on Star Trek and Star Wars, amongst other science fiction universes. It also contains forums (http://forum.spacebattles.com/) for discussion on Star Trek vs. Star Wars debates amongst other topics pertaining to science fiction.
- The Ultimate Star Wars vs. Star Trek Database (http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/usvsd/usvsd.html) - Wayne Poe's Star Wars vs. Star Trek website, one of the first to arise in the debate and the inspiration for others. The content of the site is based almost exclusively on actual posts and emails that Wayne has accumulated over the years.
- StarDestroyer.Net (http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/) - A website by Michael Wong, considered by most to be the most comprehensive and detailed Pro-Wars website of the debate. Also features forums (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net) for discussing the two franchises, other science fiction, and a number of other general topics.
- ST-v-SW.Net (http://www.st-v-sw.net) - A website by Robert Anderson, considered by most to be the most comprehensive and detailed Pro-Trek website of the debate. Also features a blog (http://www.st-v-sw.net/weblog/) about the VS debate. Note: Site uses a "canon purist" viewpoint.
- STrek-v-SWars.Net (http://www.strek-v-swars.net) - A newer website similar in position to ST-v-SW.Net, although far less complete. Also features forums (http://www.strek-v-swars.net/phpBB2/) for the purpose of debating the two franchises.
- Star Wars Technical Commentaries (http://www.theforce.net/swtc) - By astrophysicist Curtis Saxton, who has since begun writing extensive Star Wars "non-fiction" works for Lucas Licensing. There is no explicit Star Trek vs. Star Wars content on the site, though the observations and calculations found within are often cited.
- Daystrom Institute Technical Library (http://www.ditl.org) - By educator Graham Kennedy, this is also not a Star Trek vs Star Wars site, instead focusing on Star Trek technology. The text is generally color coded to discriminate between Canon and Speculation. The site does contain a Star Trek vs. Star Wars fanfic entitled "Portal" in which Trek technology is superior.
- TrekWars: The Furry Conflict (http://www.furryconflict.com) - A lighter take on the Star Trek vs. Star Wars niche, featuring original characters, role play, technical discussion, and an extensive central story. NOTE: The site considers the story more important than following "official" canon policies (http://www.furryconflict.com/backstage/about/).
- The Enterprise versus the Millennium Falcon: Who Would Win? (http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=4e2f159f.0209121740.c629458%40posting.google.com) - Egg Troll, a reasonably well known troll on sites such as slashdot and kuro5hin posted a newsgroup message on December 9, 2002. This troll worked remarkably well, with over 100 replies over a nine day period. It led to one poster to remark that he was "Trying to stir up trouble in the two main Nerdocracies". [1] (http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3D8167DB.821EF5F4%40cyclic.aux.net&output=gplain)