Talk:Undead

Contents

1 Definition of "undead" 2 D&D examples 3 'Turning' Undead 4 Mylings

Definition of "undead"

I wonder about the actual definition of 'undead'. Where did the word come from, and what is it meant to be. For example was Lazarus undead? He died and Jesus returned him to life. Taking D&D as an example if a cleric casts a resurrection spell on a dead comrade, does the raised count as undead (even if not in game terms)? Where would the line be drawn?

Hopefully my recent edit clears that up. See what you think. Feezo 05:36, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

D&D examples

Are the D&D examples best placed here? Aren't there genuine folklore examples we could use, and move the role playing game stuff to a role playing game page? Mark Richards 17:42, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Mark, what leads you to think that RPG information cannot be taken as "genuine" in comparisson to folklore examples? I say both sources are valid. RPG characteristics are indeed widely related to the undead and necromancy. I really can't see reasons not to associate them both on Wikipedia. To move that information to a role playing game page means to make the undead article less rich. The beauty of Wikipedia is the ability of crossing references; the possibility to merge informations on the same place, leading people to learn more about different subjects.

Folklore can be understood as "popular culture", which is often based on tales and beliefs. RPG fiction continues to set its roots into general knowledge, merging with popular culture on its own way. That being, RPG fiction could also be seen as a form of folklore, which makes it equally valid and genuine.

So yeah, those are my two cents. I that makes absolutely no sense, it's ok. Sometimes, I end up babbling too much. =] Mackeriv 15:05, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Although the D&D information is interesting, I think it should be seperated from the popular culture and folklore information, simply because most people looking for general information on "undead" will probably be interested in the undead from popular fiction and folklore, not the undead created specifically for RPGs. Perhaps the RPG specific information can be in its own section on this page and if it got overwhelming, perhaps move it to its own page. My worry is that if the sheer amount of individual types of undead from RPGs are put on this page it will overwhelm the common information that most people will inquire about. The demiurge 05:22, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

I think the D&D reference could be generalised and rewritten so it sounds less like a detail of RPG mechanics. I don't think all undead creatures and specific information should be listed here tho. --Ashmodai 06:12, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

D&D's influenced a lot of popular fiction, so to say "such and such characteristics/types of undead show up in book X" when said book was taking them from D&D is misleading. Nateji77 12:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

'Turning' Undead

Hi Mackeriv,

I notice you've twice changed someone's previous text about "turning undead" from its usual D&D meaning into an odd reference saying that it means turning into a lich. I've played D&D for years and play RPG-derived PC games such as Icewind Dale, etc, and the meaning you removed is the only meaning I've ever heard of "turning undead". Certainly people (generally necromantic wizards) can transform themselves into liches, but this isn't called "turning undead". Both Paladins and Clerics usually have this "turn undead" ability. I believe the term comes from "turning away" the undead - generally the power "scares" the undead - though at higher levels can destroy them. Here are some links to support this common meaning:

• http://www.gamebanshee.com/dndonline/information/3eturningundead.php
• http://snack.p.lodz.pl/~cd/html/resthelp/g_tudead.htm
• http://www.warpbreach.com/dgate/dgskills/dgturnundead.html
• http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/char/clas009.html

Zuytdorp Survivor 04:14, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

Mylings

Are them finally corporeal or incorporeal? Following the link you can read they are "phantasmal incarnations" of souls... Which doesn't clarify anything to me.

Anyway, it makes no sense to me to have them listed in both "corporeal" and "incorporeal"...--euyyn 11:39, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)