Talk:Semitic
From Academic Kids
Since Arabs outnumber Jews by about 30-to-one worldwide, I removed the reference to most people considering anti-Semitism to be Anti-Jewish -- since it is a mathematically dubious claim. Davodd 21:17, Jan 2, 2004 (UTC)
- It doesn't have anything to do with the number of Arabs versus the number of Jews. It only has to do with the people who use the phrase, who are English speakers since anti-Semitism is an English word. Most English speakers, most English authorities such as encyclopedias and dictionaries, and in fact most English literature that uses the word uses it to mean anti-Jewish. --Zero 08:46, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
There's nothing remotely controversial about the linguistic usage of "Semitic"; it is a term found equally in Arabic, Hebrew, and English to describe that language family. - Mustafa
To suggest that "anti-Semitic" does not refer to Jews is a childish cavil. Zero0000 is correct. The "controversy" that resulted in renaming this language group has arisen recently, motivated by Arabs' refusal to admit they were speaking a "Semitic" language, thus reinforcing the common meaning of "Semitic." This is not mentioned in the entry, needless to say. Wetman 18:13, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- The Arabic word for "Semitic" is سامية "saamiyya" - Semitic. I have yet to come across one Arab who claimed that Arabic was not a Semitic language - indeed, the first person to explicitly comment on the relationship of the Semitic languages was an Arabic-speaking Jew in the Middle Ages, and there is an Arabic Wikipedia entry on Semitic. Do you have any evidence for this alleged refusal? Or was it Ethiopians who objected, perhaps? This supposed controversy was formerly mentioned, but no evidence was given for it, so I have removed it. Certainly among linguists it is probably the single best-established language family name after Indo-European. Mustafaa 01:16, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Wetman's point does not hinge on his assumption that the Arabs refuse to include themselves under the term "Semitic". I daresay "Semitic" is uncontroversial, referring to any of the five branches of the linguistic group, and to their speakers. "Anti-Semitic" on the other hand may be controversial, since logically it would mean "against anything Semitic" while in actual use it means "against anything Jewish". So, indeed, it is childish to pretend that, in English, "anti-semitic" does not mean "anti-jewish", although in my opinion the term should be avoided altogether, using the more logical "anti-jewish", "anti-hebrew" etc. (I don't think there's any actual "anti-semitism", since the "Semites" do not have any sort of ethnic unity. Of course anti-judaism is irrational already, but a concept of wholesale "anti-semitism" strikes me as completely and utterly bananas ;-) Dbachmann 16:14, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I think a short list of current existing Semitic people's would be appropriate. I only know of the following: Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, and Armenians. MichaelD 03:59, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Armenians aren't Semitic anyway, and the term's ethnic use is fairly controversial. I suggest looking at Semitic languages for linguistically Semitic groups. - Mustafaa 05:22, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Armenians are an Aryan People (derived from the True Irano meaning of the word.) (User The Libyan)
Thus today's male Jews are in fact largely Semitic by descent, rather than being primarily European (Khazar) converts -- can we have a source for that? This seems like an overly simplistic statement consicdering the complexity of jewish world population (see Jew, section World population). And, even if correct, does the statement belong here at all?? Dbachmann 16:23, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I agree, now I think about it. The sentence is highly controversial - population genetics being a field in its infancy in many respects - and there's no reason to get into the controversy in this particular article. - Mustafaa 22:41, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Can anyone verify the dramatic changes to this article made by user 68.173.29.113 ? No offence meant, if the changes are justifiable. Jez 00:56, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- A few are, but most aren't. The Ashkenazis are a mixed population, with significant Semitic as well as European ancestry, and the history is frankly confused. - Mustafaa 01:32, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
there are various semitic peoples besides the arabs and jews, including arameans and ethiopians/abyssinians. some jews speak dialects of aramaic, but from what i can tell jewish aramaic is different from aramaic as spoken by arameans. also, there are ethiopian/abyssian jews (falashas/beta israel), but in the first sentence i was referring to GENTILE ethiopians/abyssinians. also, since there was reportedly a proto-semitic language, hypothetically there was a semitic people who would have been called proto-semites. Gringo300 00:16, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The Validity of calling the Ethiopic a "Semite" is very much in doubt.
(the Libyan)
In commenting on Gringos comments, Id like to say that Yes there is a Proto-semetic people these are the First Arabs of Yemen, they are commonly called Sabean (from saba)not to be confused with sabaens (or in hebrew Shevath) a people of the Himyarite valley of yemen.
The Arameans origin is cleary within Yemen, and due to confusion amonsg the greeks who confused the wealthy Armenian traders of Syrian cloth with the Native people Armenians are called Armenians rather than their correct name the Hyaq or Haik. (the Libyan)
193.174.90.94
User talk:193.174.90.94 seems to be a serial vandaliser, with a particular desire to promote Aramean and delete references to other languages/cultures on a variety of pages. Paul B 17: 15, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
