Talk:Second Industrial Revolution

From Academic Kids

Template:Cleanup taskforce closed Template:AID I believe Wik is correct in this instance about the need for commas. But will the two of you just knock it off? I think both of you can find better use for your energies than edit wars about placement of a comma. Sheesh. -- Infrogmation 02:32, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I see no evidence to indicate that I am wrong. The article on comma appears to include an example, of proper comma usage, which is akin to my usage here. I cannot "knock it off" because Wik follows me from article to article; trying to mess with my punctuation. This issue needs to be addressed. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Wik is definitely correct. What's more disturbing, though, is Lir reverting against the grammatical opinion expressed by every other user who has edited the document and commented on this page. Daniel Quinlan 02:36, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

Just because a horde of you say that Im wrong, doesn't mean I am. If you are so confident, why are you unable to explain why Im wrong? I am using the comma to mark off the sentence's seperate elements; what's the problem? Lirath Q. Pynnor

Contents

1 comma usage

2 Clean up in progress

3 Task force clean up started

4 Clean up completed

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comma usage

Well, could you prove that ! I can't put an exclamation point where I just did? It's hard for me to describe as a non-grammarian, but commas definitely don't go where you're putting them. I finally found a formal description in the "comma" section of The Elements of Style:

Restrictive clauses, by contrast, are not parenthetic and are not set off by commas. Thus,

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Note that is basically what I told you on IRC some minutes ago:

<quinlan> commas are used for parenthetical comments which can be removed, but not just any part of a sentence that may be removed

Daniel Quinlan 02:43, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

It should be: "Those who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones." In any case, I don't see how it applies here. Lirath Q. Pynnor

I believe I am supported by: http://www.stark.kent.edu/writing/commas.htm

The writing-mobile, which has a 600 horse-power engine, is the fastest machine on the road today. Lirath Q. Pynnor
Germany spent more money, which was spent on science, than England. Lirath Q. Pynnor

No, those are a different case. Specifically, they are non-restrictive clauses and therefore require the offsetting commas. Daniel Quinlan 03:04, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

How is my sentence restrictive? Lirath Q. Pynnor

Your sentence is "restrictive" because it defines or limits rather than merely adding something. Let me add two quotes from The Elements of Style:

People sitting in the rear couldn't hear. (restrictive)

Uncle Bert, being slightly dead, moved forward. (non-restrictive)

Daniel Quinlan 03:11, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

Not the same at all! Lirath Q. Pynnor

I protected the page because User:Lir started blanking it. I did not protect the page over the comma disagreement since I was involved in trying to convince Lir that his use of commas was ungrammatical, but blanking pages over a grammar dispute is unacceptable, so I protected the most recent unblanked version. Daniel Quinlan 03:41, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

Lir says he won't blank it again so I unprotected it. Don't forget to list pages on Wikipedia:Protected page if you protect or unprotect them. Angela 04:46, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

Okay. (There isn't an automatic listing? How annoying. ;-) Daniel Quinlan 05:09, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

Ok, agreeing that two commas are unnecessary; how about,

In science, the Germans invested more than the British.
- It is necessary to mention science first because this section is already clearly discussing Germany; so, science should be singled out as the defining part of this sentence.
  - Lirath Q. Pynnor

Pardon me for butting in, but I believe "Those who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones" is incorrect because "shouldn't throw stones" is not a clause of any sort, and it is lacking a subject if you put the comma in. "Those who live in glass houses" is similarily missing a verb (as it is not a clause on its own either). The comma strikes me as a hypercorrection. Adam Bishop 05:03, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

That is perhaps technically an okay sentence (although the sentences before and after your proposal are not grammatical), but the current version of the page is correct, less awkward, clearer, and more informative. Daniel Quinlan 05:09, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

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