Talk:Richard Lewontin

From Academic Kids

Lewontin has been a persistent critic of the type of genetic determinism espoused by some neo-Darwinists such as Richard Dawkins.

I want to edit that, but I don't dare, because I'm not sure whether my edits would count as NPOV. Lewontin and Gould's argument with Dawkins appears to based entirely on a straw-man misunderstanding of Dawkins et al's "genetic determinism" (Dawkins covers this in A Devil's Chaplain, the end-notes of the 2nd ed of The Selfish Gene and The Extended Phenotype. Matt Ridley and Stephen Pinker have also done good at showing that Lewontin's argument's based on a misunderstanding (Ridley's Nature via Nurture and Genome and Pinker's The Blank Slate)... --Steinsky 01:45, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I have edited the sentence cited above, because it gave the impression that Dawkins et al are espousing genetic determinism, when in fact that is just one (I think rather misleading) view of what they are saying.

The article would also, I feel, benefit from a paragraph or two outlining the response to Lewontin from the sociobiology / evolutionary psychology camp. R Lowry 20:12, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

---

• The article should refer to Lewontin's extreme leftist politics, and mention that his rejection of sociobiology has been criticized as being perhaps influenced by his political ideology. And if you can do this and still be NPOV, you get a cookie. Tim Shell

This is just from memory, but doesn't Steven Pinker's latest book The Blank Slate refer a quote by Lewontin where he openly admits that he's only interested in doing and supporting science matching his political views? I seem to remember it does, so if someone wants to dig up a quote from Lewontin to build up this argument, it might be wise to start looking there for the reference. Mortene 09:07, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Rather than getting too worked up about ideology and politics (which have a place, but shouldn't be the focus of the article) and having this turn into a "he-says, she-says" kind of Wikipedia article. I would rather see this article expanded further in the coverage of Lewontin's science, particularly in the early days of population genetics and molecular evolution, where he has been hugely influential and developed a good deal of mathematics and analysis which continues to inform the field to this day. His scientific output in these areas (particularly in the early days), is more notable in the scientific community than his views on sociobiology, which are relatively small part of his output. --Lexor|Talk 09:39, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. I was just reading Matt Ridley's Nature via Nurture, and it is mentioned that Lewontin was the first to prove that there is on average a far greater genetic difference between two randomly selected individuals from the same race, than the average between any two different races. (Chapter 8, "Conondrums of Culture", page 204 in my hardcover edition.) Sounds like a major scientific finding, which should be mentioned in the article. Ridley gives no reference for just this statement, though. Anyone here know more about this? Mortene 12:49, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It was referenced later in the book: Lewontin, R.C. 1972 "The apportionment of human diversity" Evolutionary Biology 6:381-98. I'll make a note of this scientific accomplishment in the article, if there are no protests. Mortene 09:18, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, Lewontin was one of the major contributors to that result and that reference sounds about the right timeframe. I haven't read the paper itself, possibly a good idea. If none of use gets around to digging up the original, and if you think Ridley summarizes it correctly, just say: Lewontin 1972 blah, blah as cited by Ridley 2004(?) blah, blah.... --Lexor|Talk 14:36, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Are these universities in chronological order?

North Carolina State University, the University of Rochester, and the University of Chicago