Talk:Regime

From Academic Kids

I may have missed a previous discussion on this topic, but I'd just like to query the use of the acute é in the (English) word 'regime'. I've never seen it except in very old texts. I notice that the entry for Regime change lacks the accent. I realise there's a redirect from Regime to Régime, so it's not the end of the world - just a minor query really. Toby W 11:22, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

According to our "most common name" rule, you're quite right - it should be at regime. A Google search gives far more instances of "regime" than "régime", especially if you exclude French (which we should, since the language of the article is English). The majority of the links to the article go to "regime" rather than "régime", too. I've moved the article accordingly. -- Vardion 12:27, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"perjorative" is original research

I checked both the American Heritage and Encarta dictionaries and dictonary.com and none of them list "regime" as perjorative, so unless this can be documented it is original research and not appropriate for wikipedia. --68.35.159.18 19:46, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

regime as "perjorative" is original research

I checked both the American Heritage and Encarta dictionaries and dictonary.com and none of them list "regime" as perjorative, so unless this can be documented it is original research and not appropriate for wikipedia. --Silverback 19:51, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

American Heritage lists many words ("stupid", "crazy", etc.) which are clearly pejorative but which are not marked as such. Moreover, there are plenty of prior claims that the word is pejorative (to take three completely random examples, a paper given at a political studies convention (http://www.psa.ac.uk/publications/psd/1995/bulpitt.htm), an article in the Zimbabwe Independent (http://www.theindependent.co.zw/news/2004/October/Friday15/muckr.html), and something at a site called "Word Detective" (http://www.word-detective.com/112402.html)), so it certainly isn't "original research". Would you find it more acceptable if it was rephrased as "some people see it as pejorative", or something along those lines? -- Vardion 20:57, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

These are equivocal, claiming that some media or common usage is pejorative, but acknowledging the other uses, the word detective link even calls "regime change" a euphemism, something unlikely for an inherently pejorative term. Just about any term can be used pejoratively, especially in an auditory forum where inflection can do its expressive work. I have found no authoritative reference that lists it as pejorative. The closest is the Encarta dictionary, which lists the second definition as usually being applied to "oppressive" governments. Since oppressive has a negative connotation, perhaps, it regime could be considered pejorative when applied to a government you like, but applying this to the Saddam regime would be correct usage and not pejorative. Still, even here the primary definition lacked the oppressive overtone. Consider the term "undemocratic". When applied to Bush it might be pejorative, but when properly applied to Saddam, it would merely be descriptive. Wikipedia should not be leading the way to make regime pejorative, either as a primary or secondary definition. If you want to capture the secondary "oppressive" element that might be a good compromise.--Silverback 22:01, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I think, perhaps, we are using slightly different definitions of the word "pejorative", and so I've removed that particular term. I've reworked the article a bit to mention both the neutral and the negative usages of the word — please take a look and see whether you find it satisfactory. -- Vardion 22:45, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

That is satisfactory. Good effort, thanx.--Silverback 00:19, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Bush regime

I addede this, and it was reverted. He is a link to show that there are over 5.5million google hits for the phrase. Saddam gets only 3million, with Salazar a megre 85 thousand. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=bush+regime&btnG=Search Guttlekraw 19:12, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please learn how to do a google test. With quotes, the results are quite different. --Viriditas | Talk 10:31, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, and your point is? The new rankings are:

• 287,000 Saddam - [1] (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Saddam+Regime%22&btnG=Search)
• 173,000 Bush - [2] (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Bush+Regime%22&btnG=Search)
• 779 Salazar - [3] (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Salazar+Regime%22&btnG=Search)

First and second place are switched, but both still outrank third place massively. I still advocate keeping all three, rather than removing Salazar. Guttlekraw 21:56, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A "regime" refers to a system of government, not necessarily to a person heading that government. When the entire Legislative, Judicial & Executive powers are wrapped up into the body of one person, without a clearly defined system of succession upon that persons demise, than that persons name can applied to the regime (Kim Il Jung regime, Castro regime, Saddam regime, Hitler regime etc). In the United States, the system of government is the Constitution of the United States, which prescibes the manner & method of lawmaking, judicial selection, executive powers etc.; the Bush Administration is empowered under that regime, hence the Constitution of the United States is the governing regime. To advocate a "change of regime" in the United States, in the language of diplomacy as prescribed by the 1815 Congress of Vienna, is to speak openly of the overthrow of the United States Constitution, not the transition of the Bush administration to another administration. Sorry to confuse Bush haters with facts, but the wealth of bullshit written about this since 2003 aint worth the 8 gallons of water necessary to flush it. Nobs01 15:46, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)