Talk:Ramon Llull
From Academic Kids
There are a whole load of variant spellings for this chap. Would definitely need redirect links for the most common ones. I've found at least Raymond Lull and Ramon Lull, and I know there are a long list more.
I'm going to add redirect pages - Raymund Lull and Raymond Lulli Cimon avaro
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Dead link
The link to the Ramon Llull Database, University of Barcelona appears dead. Does anyone have a new one? -- Jmabel | Talk 04:36, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)
Book
The article seems to suggest that other attributions of books to Llull are dubious, but I see consistently on the net (including in es:Arabista, which I am translating) unhesitating attribution to him of the Book of the Gentile and the Three Wise Men (Llibre del gentil e dels tres savis). I see no reason to doubt these and am adding it to the article. There seems general agreement it is a major work (I have not read it). -- Jmabel | Talk 04:36, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)
Nationality
I noticed recently that Category:Spanish philosophers was changed to the non-existent Category:European philosophers. Unfortunately, the latter doesn't exist, so I have removed. it. I presume that the reason for the removal of Category:Spanish philosophers was the anachronism of using the term "Spanish" to refer to a Catalan of this period, a point well taken in my view. That category in general seems a bit dubious, since it includes Maimonides and Averroes as well, not exactly Spaniards. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:46, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)
- Can't you talk in English about Medieval or Roman Spain (including Portugal)? It can be misleading but from what I read in Wikipedia, English has a wider concept of Spain (=Hispania) than Spanish (and Portuguese). Would Category:Italian philosophers be limited to post-Union ones? Anyway, you could have Category:Iberian philosophers if you want a geographical superset.
- Besides, I wouldn't delete reasonable empty categories? Is there a policy?
- And I see that there is a subCategory:Spanish theologians -- Error 23:54, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- I suppose we could restore Category:European philosophers, but it's hard to see what use it is without a category page: it's not a subcategory or super-category of anything else, so no one would ever navigate to it. I personally don't like the tendency to categorize everything in terms of present-day nation states, but if the category of "Spanish philosophers" includes Averroes, it should include Llull; User:Perique des Palottes, who I believe is from Mallorca, obviously thinks otherwise, presumably on the basis of Catalan nationalism. I doubt he'll be any happier with Category:Spanish theologians.
- As for English-language usage on this, it's inconsistent. Talking about Roman times, we are more likely to use "Iberia"; al-Andalus is probably most commonly "Moorish Spain". "Spain" without qualification tends to imply Christian rule. Characterizing a person as "Spanish" is, of course, often more contentious than characterizing a territory as part of Spain. "Italian" is much less contentious: the only people in Italy that I'm aware of who might have trouble with that label are the German-speakers in Udine, and maybe some Slavs around Trieste. To the best of my knowledge, for example, Sicilians all consider themselves Italian and Sicilian, whereas a lot of Catalans and Basques resent being called "Spanish". -- Jmabel | Talk 06:39, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
- I noticed that Italian philosophers does not include Roman or Greek ones. Maimonides could also be in Category:African philosophers or even Category:Asian philosophers. -- Error 05:07, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
No smoking
Despite appearances in the image, Llull is not smoking a cigarette. Tobacco was introduced to Europe from the New World in the 15th century. The "wisp of smoke" is in fact a long, narrow cartoon word bubble. (anon, March 19, 2005)
