Talk:Polari
From Academic Kids
I'm not sure that the reference to Naff's usage in Porridge is correct. Ronnie Barker claims he invented the word.
I thought it was already in use in the 19th century. -- Error
- Yeah, I thought so, too...
These two broken links were removed:
- http://www.ling.lancs.ac.uk/staff/paulb/julian.pdf
- http://www.ling.lancs.ac.uk/staff/paulb/gaylang.pdf
I do not understand. All these words
- bloke
- bimbo
- bijou
- camp
- drag
- mince
vastly predate the 50s and 60s! Doops 01:24, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
- Agreed, bloke I think comes from Sheldru, which I understand is similar to Romany but is a travellers' cant rather than that of the gay subculture. Bijou is the French word for jewel, and I've never seen it used to mean small. thefamouseccles
- A lot of that seems suspect to me too (but then again, any etymology that relies on an acronym does). OED2 says:
- * naff - Origin unknown, various theories; naff may perh. be < Italian gnaffa despicable person (16th cent.); Not Available For Fucking is prob. later rationalization; OED Suppl. 1976 compares to N. Engl. slang naffy, naffhead, simpleton.
- * bloke - Origin unknown, plus cite of Romany connection. First cite 1851, so definitely not specific to Polari.
- * bimbo - It., cf. bambino. First cite 1929 for "woman" sense.
- * bijou (a.) - as thefamouseccles says; F. bijou (16th c. in Littré), but "Loosely as adj.: small and elegant, luxurious (applied esp. to houses)." First cite 1668; first cite in "small" context 1860.
- * camp (a.) - Etym. obscure, first cite 1909 in present sense.
- * drag (n.) - first cite 1870, no etym. beyond drag (v.)
- * mince (v.) - first cite 1562!
- So it seems pretty clear that those are all fake etymologies (esp. naff, which has two disagreeing etymologies in the article!), so I've elided that section and touched up the bit on naff. — mendel ☎ 23:49, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
- Unless Polari itself predates the 50's,60's, which I think it does...
- This site claims that Polari originated in the 19th century, though it only became huge in gay subulture from the beginning of the 20th: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/life/story/0,6903,409178,00.html This site claims that it was most popular from the 1930's to the 1970's: http://www.ling.lancs.ac.uk/staff/paulb/polari/home.htm
