Talk:Octave
From Academic Kids
I removed this:
- The word is also used to describe the set of 8 notes which fall within the range of an octave in a scale.
because I don't know what it means, frankly. What it seems to boil down to is "Octave means octave". Even in the diatonic scale (and let's not forget, there are thousands of other scales), there are really only seven notes to the octave: the eighth is a repetion of the first, an octave higher.
Also, 8ve is short for octave, but 8va, while short for ottava, is used to mean "play it an octave higher than is written", rather than simply "octave". I guess that might be mentioned somewhere, but it isn't used as an equivalent to octave, so I took it out. --Camembert
A while back I actually made a stub 8va article. Perhaps it could be integrated with this one. -- Merphant
- Ah, I didn't notice that - I think I'll move it in here, yes, and make 8va a redirect. It'll help to de-stubify this article, and I can't see 8va ever containing that much more than is there now, anyway. --Camembert
I think I know what that means, and I'm not sure it's important, but let's see if I can say it in a meaningful way. A piano has 88 keys which range in pitch from 27.5 (A0) to 4186 Hz (C8). The numeral indicates which octave the note falls into. "Middle C" is C4. It is in the octave (the set of 8 notes) that begins at A4. FWIW, the 'eight' is built into the terminology: a note 8 notes higher that another is an octave higher the same way the octave of a holiday is 8 days later. If you divide it into more notes, it's a bit of a misnomer to call it an octave anymore - (I don't know what else it would be called, though I imagine there's a name for it)<G> -- Someone else 01:51 Oct 28, 2002 (UTC)
- Well, an octave is just called an octave no matter how many notes there are in between, though when talking about non-diatonic (or non-chromatic) scales in a technical context, people sometimes prefer to use frequency ratios rather than words, so they talk of a 2:1 rather than an octave. As for "that", I see what was meant now (thanks), but I'm afraid I still can't think of a way of rewording it and putting it back into the article without it sounding like it's saying "an octave is also a range of notes an octave wide". Probably just me being dim :) --Camembert
As well as being used to describe the relationship between two notes, the word is also used when speaking of a range of notes an octave wide.
Hmmm, no, I don't think this is good either. There is no place in the article about an octave being a set or a distance of eight, which makes the comment seem redundant; that was your original complaint. The original text mentioned that, sort of. The article should mention that usage, and then maybe say that the musical usage got its name from the 8 notes in the diatonic scale -- I assume that's where it came from anyway. Your last point is still valid, though, and needs to be mentioned; an octave maintains the same 2:1 ratio no matter how many notes you squeeze in between. I'll let you figure out how to write all this, because you're more articulate than me ;) -- Merphant
I've rewritten that bit: "the word is also used when speaking of a range of notes that fall between a pair an octave apart ... ". It seems inconsisnte to speak of 8 notes of a diatonic octave (count both Cs), but 12 of chromatic (count only the bottom C), but as I was about to write just that it seemed to make sense. Will report back on this intriguing sensation later ... :-) -- Tarquin 11:36 Oct 28, 2002 (UTC)
- How about something like: "An octave is a range of eight notes, in a diatonic scale that is, but a diatonic scale only has seven notes, and really is has 12 notes (that's called the chromatic scale), but we don't use all of them, and that's why we don't call it the triskidective, which would be 13." ;) Really, I think that what Tarquin has added makes sense, but after all this, I'm not sure if I really know anything about music any more - when I started at the wikipedia, I didn't expect to be turned into a skeptic... --Camembert
"It is also the inversion of the unison" feels intuitively wrong to me - is this something that a particular writer states to be the case, or has it just been extrapolated by moving one note of a unison up an octave? I want to say rather that the inversion of an octave is still an octave, and the inversion of a unison a unison - as they all belong to the same pitch class, it seems a bit academic anyway. I mean, of course if you invert a diminished octave you get an augmented unison, but when talking about perfect unisons and octaves... it just seems wrong to me. --Camembert
- I clarified the inversion (music) article a little. For the record, the octave is the inversion of the unison (& vice versa). Some confusion comes from compound intervals, if two notes are two octaves apart their inversion will make them either one octave apart or three, in which case it does appear the octave is the inverse of the octave...Hyacinth
- If you invert two notes two octaves apart, you might end up with them one octave apart or they might be three octaves apart? I'm afraid you've completely lost me there. That would be true if the process of inversion was moving one of the notes up or down an octave, but it's not - if it were, then a compound major third, say, would still be a major third after inversion, which is ludicrous. Inversion is really about switching the positions of the notes, so that the one that was on top is now on the bottom and vice versa. And if both notes are Cs then switching them has no effect - you still have a C on top and a C on the bottom, just like you did before. That's what I mean when I say it's academic, really. Anyway, it's probably not a tremendously big deal, but more on this at Talk:Inversion (music). --Camembert
- The process of inversion is "switching the positions of the notes", however, for a simple interval that means only moving ONE note ONE octave. A fifth becomes a fourth only if it was a simple interval to begin with, thus, when describing the complementary nature of inverted simple intervals, it makes sense to include the unison and the octave. I removed the mention from the unison and octave articles, I do believe, but left it at Inversion, I think.Hyacinth 04:08, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Something knocked loose in my head, and I figured out what I was trying to do: The octave is the complement of the unison! -Hyacinth 05:30, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
What about technical meaning of an 'octave' ?
something along the lines of "this term is used to denote factor of 2 difference not only for audio frequencies, but for radio frequencies as well"
Paul B.
A minor edit is needed to correct this sentence: "This is in some ways is similar..." Sir48-DK
