Talk:Lorenzo de' Medici
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Did he actually win any of those beauty contests??? -- Marj Tiefert, Sunday, April 14, 2002 ;-)
Almost every one to my knowledge -- he was a very powerful and attractive person. --maveric149
- Hmph! -- musta bin having a bad face day when they did the bust then... (Marj)
Lorenzo is generally described as being somewhat homely. The pageants referred to are actually Medieval tournaments, in which he often competed in his youth. -- Jnc 19:48, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I removed this text:
- The great rival family of the Medici clan was the Sforza, the most famous of whom was Francesco.
because a) it's wrong, the Sforza were allies more than rivals, and ii) it's in the wrong entry - Francesco was aided to power by Cosimo the Elder. At some point we should move it.. -- Jnc 19:48, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)
There is (in Wikipedia!) vacillation between "Lorenzo de Medici" and "Lorenzo de' Medici" (same for other members of the family). As far as I know, there is in Italian no preposition "de". "de'" stands for "dei", a form which includes the definite article (plural). -- S. User:217.168.172.202 20:45, 27 Aug 2002
- This is an English language encyclopedia so the most common form is "de" not "de'". --mav
This is a little disorganized, because almost all the Medici pages use plain "de", but two (Giovanni di Bicci and Piero the Unfortunate) use "de'". Just to make things complicated, it appears that the correct usage is actually "de'" (short for "della", I think).
The easiest proposal would be to use plain "de" throughout, which would mean renaming the "Piero de' Medici" page; unless someone wants to be really energetic and fix them all. (I'd also like to ditch the redirect from "Piero" - really, it's just a common given name, and doesn't deserve to be linked to him.)
Also, given the recurrence of names through the dynasty, we might want to consider using the form most historians use, which is the full X di Y de' Medici - e.g. Piero the Unfortunate is properly "Piero di Lozeno de' Medici". -- Jnc 19:48, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- He is most commonly known as Lorenzo de Medici in the English speaking world. So that is where the article should be unless a specific naming convention says otherwise. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). --mav 23:28, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Ummm, "Lorenzo I de' Medici" turns up 49 matches on Google, "Lorenzo de' Medici" about 16,600. Didn't you just point me at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), where it says "Use the most common name of a person or thing"? Even "Lorenzo di Piero de' Medici", which you just deprecated, turns up 164, more than "Lorenzo I de' Medici". Noel 04:33, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- Just trying to balance consistency vs. use. I'll change it back since this Lorenzo is by far the most famous. --mav
On the second to the last paragraph there is a link to Lorenzo's brother Giovanni who I believe is Pope Leo X, but the link goes to Pope Leo XI who is Alessandro de' Medici. Is this just a simple typo? I don't know enough about this to be sure and change the link. (jtu) -- User:24.153.226.8 21:00, 12 Feb 2004
- Lorenzo's brother was Giuliano - he was assinated when they were both still young, and never held a major post. Lorenzo's son Giuliano (I know, confusing :-) was named after him.
jtu, good call-
Lorenzo the Magnificent's brother Giuliano had an illegitimate son named Giulio who became Pope Clement VII.
Lorenzo's sons were Piero, Giovanni (who became Pope Leo X) and Giuliano. Piero in turn named his own son Lorenzo (how confusing) and this younger Lorenzo's illegitimate son Alessandro was a duke, but never a cardinal or pope.
Hope that clears things up a little.
Also, I vote for the use of "de" because it is indeed and English-language encyclopedia; however, for serious scholarship, it is correct to use " de' " as the abbreveation for the Italian word "DEI."
(crawfoem) -- User:149.150.236.250 13:44, 26 Feb 2004
- Is it possible that "de'" is actually short for "della" - this form is found in other Italian names from the period (e.g. the della Roveres).
- We have chosen to use the "de'" form for the articles because it is the correct form. However, to be encylopedic about it, there are links from the "de" form of the name for every article. Noel 21:02, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
De or Di de or di
Basically de would be used in Northern Italy or spain as a connector between generational names. De would be the actual form of a new "last name" in Spain or Northern Italy. In southern italy the Di form is used. I am a Di Lorenzo. My family is from Sessa Aurunca, (near Naples) and we took our name from Lorenzo de Medici. Haven't taken the time to trace whether it is a blood connection or a name given. I visited a cousins home in Sessa,(46-room former monastary with an underground connection to the city cathedral)and know that our family had once been very wealthy. My branch of the family were tailors for the last 150-years or so and we made clothes for the clergy and the wealthy. This trade was practiced after the Italian civil war, which Naples lost. Conditions in southern Italy grew increasingly worse and we came to America early this century. I maintain contact with my cousins to this day. From Royalty to a salesman in America! :-) LOL -- User:172.203.194.38 21:31, 25 Mar 2004
- Actually, the Medici used the "di" to separate generational names, too. So this Lorenzo is "Lorenzo di Piero de' Medici", in full. The "de'" is part of the family name (like the "della" in "della Rovere"). Noel (talk)
Picture
There seems no valid reason for the image to have been removed Nov. 14. I think it should be restored. Hu 18:40, 2004 Nov 14 (UTC).
Since no comment has been made, I have reverted to include the image again. Hu 19:41, 2004 Nov 14 (UTC)
