Talk:List of Slavs

If it's necessary to indicate that a person is not just a Russian, but a Russian Jew, doesn't that mean that they don't qualify for Slav-dom? -- Zoe

Not if they're Jewish Slavs... ;) Perhaps I'll ask my good pal Alexei the one-quarter(?)-Jewish Russian chap for his take on the matter... -- Oliver Pereira 00:22 Nov 23, 2002 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not trying to be offensive, it just seemed odd that it was necessary to say "Russian Jew". -- Zoe

I expect it's just to be more specific... -- Oliver Pereira 03:15 Nov 23, 2002 (UTC)

But speaking of being specific, what is the point of a page of "famous Slavs"? For several countries, we have pages of famous people from those countries. So why are we lumping together famous people from Serbia, Slovakia, Russia, and so on in one place? Why not have separate pages for each country? Or are we going to have separate pages for them as well as this one? (Yikes!) And what does the term "Slav" mean, anyway? Is it to do with country of birth, or one of those vague "ethnic" terms? I think it would probably be more useful to arrange people by country of birth rather than get into disputes about what it means to be a Slav... -- Oliver Pereira 03:15 Nov 23, 2002 (UTC)

Ethnically Slav, I'd say, i.e. member of any of the peoples known as Slav. (Seems pretty clear to me... *shrug*) --Shallot 20:45, 11 Sep 2003 (UTC)

What this page really needs is a bot which would sum famous Russians, Serbs etc. into it. Nikola 04:09 19 May 2003 (UTC)

I was wondering why there isn't a single Bulgarian in the List of Slavs. Aren't Bulgarians Slavs? Isn't Bulgarian language the base for Old Church Slavonic?

Bulgarians are Slavs, and there is a list of Bulgarians! (although it is pretty empty... probably there is no Bulgarian on WP (writing about Bulgaria).) Nikola 05:21 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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I really think that we should agree about purpose of this page: should it contain only Slavs that are not in any national list, or all Slavs, or Slavs that are not in national lists and most prominent of those that are? Nikola 19:51, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I think listing the most prominent ones of all nations would be good. The less prominent ones should stay in their national list, if any, otherwise this list would soon become too large. --Shallot 20:45, 11 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I agree. But how prominent should the most prominent be? For half of people I've never heard. Also, should it list people with highest national achievements or those internationally known? Nikola 02:45, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

These are all valid issues. I guess we just have to try to work on a decent compromise. For all nations there are people who are of utmost importance to the nation and yet not too important to foreigners. There's also sport or showbusiness celebrities for whom it may seem superficial to be listed alongside the greatest thinkers of the nation, but when they are known worldwide, it does make sense to list at least some of them.

As for people who we never heard of, well, I guess that's normal. There's Nobel laureates on the list whose name I'd never have recognized. It's good to have people like these on such a list so that others can learn about them.

It's a matter of finding the right balance. I suggest we just give it our best shot. :) --Shallot 12:44, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

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The Subic-Zrinski family was ethnically Slav -- Croat, not Hungarian. They are every bit important in Hungarian history as they are in Croatian, but I can't find any reason to question that they are not Croats. Even the old 1911 Encyclopedia article that's obviously written from a Hungarian POV doesn't deny his Croat heritage.

I googled and found an interesting record of their family line written by a Greek person: http://www.hr/darko/etf/subich.html

--Shallot 10:32, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Miklos_Zrinyi says differently, besides, I am no expert on Magyar history but I believe that either Miklos or his brother Peter was a prominent poet in the Magyar language, wrote some big Magyar patriotic poems by the way and once described himself as a Magyar. --Igor 21:20, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I don't see how any of that contradicts his ethnicity being Croat, not Hungarian. AFAICT, his mother and tutors were all Hungarians, but this is the guy who said "Ja sam si svjestan i znam da nisam odrod, da sam Hrvat i to Zrinski." -- you'll understand what that means. >:) I suppose it's fair to list his Hungarian ethnicity on account of his mother, though it's good that we have the rationale on record.

Ironically, this now reminds me of Rudjer Boskovic.

But, back to the business. I initially added both Nikolas, the grandfather and the grandson. I think they should both be listed; if not, the grandfather seems more worthy of note given that his grandson's greatest epic was about the grandfather's heroic battle.

--Shallot 23:29, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

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I've started adding dual English/National spelling of names because I think that some English-speaking persons might not recognize "Kazimierz Pułaski" they just know him as "Casimir Pulaski". This way

• there's a link to correct Wikipedia page
• it is easily recognizable by people not familiar with Polish or other diacritics
• you can show how the names should be properly written

--Kpjas 11:17, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

There are people who are unable to figure out that Pułaski is Pulaski? If you say so... :) --Shallot 12:55, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

And Wałęsa ? :-) Kpjas

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Shouldn't we sort by the last name rather than the first name? --Shallot 12:55, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Done. Kpjas

No, this renaming is wrong. "Slavic peoples" mean the listings of Slavs -- Russian, Bulgarian, etc. Maybe "Slavic people", but "List of Slavs" seems the better name. I will put it back. RickK 22:52, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Okay. I thought I was consistent enough but I guess I've just made another mess. Since English is not my native of cource I am not able to distinguish such diffreneces. Thank you, anyway. --XJamRastafire 23:09, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)