Talk:Irish Traveller
From Academic Kids
Article originally spoke of a "nomadic people", but I think that's misleading.
Also, the article seems to be mostly a summary of the advocacy website. It needs a bit of balance.
Also, the claim that Travellers are "distinct" needs some more explanation. How are they different from other Irish, aside from their desire to move about rather than remain settled?
--Ed Poor
- They are distinct in look (a product of dietary limitations and its impact on body shape, skin quality, overall health, etc), in social characteristics (large families, high rate of inter-marriage and early death), in speech mannerisms (whereas most people in Ireland have a dialect based on physical location, their community has a set of speech mannerisms unique to it, with its own language and indeed distinctive usage of english), in educational experience (because of the constant degree of travel, traveller children spent less time in one set school and so generally have a lower rate of educational attainment, often missing much of the school year as they travel around the country. Most Traveller children leave school between 12 and 15 years of age). FearÉIREANN
The name "Irish Traveller" is well-established for these people. They are not a movement -- they are a people, with a clearly defined culture. The Irish Travellers' Movement, on the other hand is a political pressure group that tries to push for recognition of the rights of the Irish Travellers.
- Please provide evidence for the distinctness of this "people". I am adding sources for some of the claims you have made.
- Also, I will try to reduce the redundancy between the traveller and traveller movement articles. --Ed Poor
This is an interesting topic, and I thank the anonymous contributor who began the article. I was initially confused about the "movement" vs. the people, but apparently the ITM is an umbrella organization advocating on behalf of Travellers. --Ed Poor
You're welcome. -- Anon.
From traveller:
Traveller can also refer to people of Ireland (and their decendants in Great Britain and the United States) who have no fixed place of residence and who, in decades past, were often travelling tinsmiths. There is no exact estimate of the number of travellers, but they do number in the tens of thousands.
Links:
- The Irish Traveller Movement (http://www.itmtrav.com/)
I'm no linguist, but the use of the word 'jargon' in the following sentence seems incorrect..."The Shelta language is the traditional language of the Irish Travellers, adapted as a jargon from the Irish language." 'Dialect' or 'dervative', maybe? ike9898 14:21, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)
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Pavee awareness
Knowledge of the Irish traveller culture only evolves with its own self-awareness. In recent years a number of organizations have worked to consolidate information of its movements and demographics, as well as educate those too often found on the far fringes of British and Irish society. It is now widely understood that there are as many Irish travellers in Britain as there are in Ireland, numbering about 75,000 throughout the isles, as well as small communities in Germany and the United States. The travellers in Britain are often referred to as Didecoit and speak a variant form of Gammon. The term Pavee is the latest in a line of politically-correct classifications.
Irish Rovers?
Does the name of the musical group "The Irish Rovers" derive from this group at all? Is that another alternative term? In my family, I'm pretty sure that the near-legendary (within the family, anyway) dealings my great-grandfather supposedly had with "Gypsies" were likely with this group rather than actual Romany, although that's mostly guesswork. Legendarily, a community of them which travelled the Upper South and Lower Midwest of the U.S. had a cemetary near Nashville, where they annually returned in the spring and buried their dead, preserving the bodies until they arrived.
Rlquall 13:49, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- I've never heard of any connection between the Irish Rovers and the Travellers. As far as Travellers being found in the U.S., that's absolutely true, and those are prime locations where they live. I've never heard a single thing about preserving bodies for up to a year, and I imagine that's part of the anti-Travellers folklore. Beginning 17:05, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)
Terms for travellers
The common term "itinerant" is not mentioned. I had assumed this to be a bad attempt at PC, which usually gives more offense than the more direct "travellers". Is this correct?
zoney ♣ talk 16:31, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I agree, "itinerant", and also "Pavee" or the abbreviation "Pav" should also be added somewhere in it, but I don't know where exactly would be suitable, especially since "Pavee" is supposed to be PC... --Zilog Jones 19:24, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
What scam?
"Recently, certain highly-publicised scams, such as on the Discovery Channel, perpetrated by Irish Travellers..." What Discovery Channel scam is this? I couldn't find any reference to it. --Cholling 13:45, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Let me reiterate this user's question. I also cannot find any reference to the Discovery Channel scam elsewhere nor has any further explanation been offered on this page. Someone please enlighten us! anonymous user, June 22, 2005.
"Tinker" redirects to "Gypsy Vanner horse"
Silly Americans ^_^ Someone should do something about this. Maybe a specific page on actual tinkers (travellers who make tin products) should be made, or it should be redirected here?
I think someone should give explanations of the real meanings of tinker and knacker - I can't think of a suitable way of describing them. --Zilog Jones 19:27, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
