Talk:Great Auk
From Academic Kids
I've seen several references that put the Great Auk in the Laridae family of the Ciconiiformes. Any thoughts? - UtherSRG 15:42, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)
- Only Sibley-Ahlquist taxonomy as adopted by the AOU goes for this radical scheme, the rest of the world uses Charadriiformes. Surely it should be Alcidae rather than the gulls, Laridae, anyway? jimfbleak 17:32, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I see about twice as many lisings as Alcidae than for Laridae, and the family issue was more of my concern than the old S-A tax. - UtherSRG 17:41, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)~
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I've seen the spelling "Great Aux" in use. Google image search (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Great+Aux%22&sa=N&tab=wi), at the time of writing, actually lists images corresponding to those it produces when queried for "Great Auk". Three of them, actually. I tend to think that this is a typo - Google doesn't otherwise recognise the phrase - but was wandering whether anybody else has anything to say on the subject. -Itai 21:36, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
An alternative theory suggests that the word penguin comes from the Latin pinguis meaning "fat", referring to the plump appearance of the bird.
Which bird: the great auk or 'the' penguin? This is unclear on the penguin page as well. --Townmouse 19:30, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
etymology again
- The Great Auk, in Welsh pen gwyn, 'white head' (referring to the prominent white patch on the head which distinguishes it from other auks), was the original bird to which the name "penguin" applied; this use was first recorded in 1536 in respect of islands off Newfoundland. Later, when explorers discovered similar-looking birds in the southern hemisphere, the name was applied to them as well. An alternative theory suggested by John Latham in 1785, now considered a learned folk-etymology, suggests that the word penguin comes from the Latin pinguis meaning "fat".
IMO the edits to the above para introduce several errors of fact and logic:
1. "Pen gwyn" is not the Welsh for Great Auk (carfil mawr). It's the Welsh for "white head".
2. The "white head" etymology is dubious and far from universally accepted. It's worth mentioning as a theory, no more. The "accepted" line is that the etymology is obscure (i.e. no-one knows really).
3. A white patch on the head is not the same as a white head. As the picture clearly shows, it looks more like a white eye. Are there any other birds called "xyz head" that only have a patch of xyz colour on the head? I don't know.
4. The Great Auk is not the only auk to have a white marking on the head. The puffin has much more white on the head. The Great Auk must be one of the most distinctive birds in the world (huge size, flightless), and hardly needed any distinguishing from other auks.
5. What's a "learned folk-etymology"? Sounds like an oxymoron. Folk-etymology is when, out of ignorance, someone distorts an unfamiliar word to make it sound like a familiar one ("ashfelt" for asphalt, etc). It doesn't just mean an erroneous etymology.
It would be good to see some documentary evidence, both for the "pen gwyn" theory and against the "pinguis" one. Otherwise I respectfully suggest MPF's changes should be reverted, since the only improvement they seem to offer is the author and date of the "pinguis" theory (John Latham in 1785).
Flapdragon 22:44, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
