Talk:Eudicotyledon
From Academic Kids
Note that these names are not formed in the manner specified by the International Code for Botanical Nomenclature so are only provisional, and not the valid names for the groups. The valid name for the "eudicots" and the other groups given here have yet to be selected or determined.
This is inaccurate. The names eudicotyledon and tricolpates are valid names for the group, in the same way that monocotyledons is a valid name for its group. They are not valid names for the formal ranked taxon corresponding to the group, should one be used, but that's a different matter. And as stated repeatedly, systems that treat the eudicots as a class call must call it the Rosopsida, so the claim that the name hasn't been selected is false.
- Repeatedly where? And if so, why are those silly 'Euro-sid' names still there? Group names prefixed Eu- are definitely proscribed by the ICBN - MPF 21:37, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Twice here, and once on flowering plant. The "silly" names are here because those are the names of the groups in question, as used by the majority of people discussing relationships. They don't have to conform to the ICBN because they're not formal ranked taxa, which haven't emerged yet and ultimately may not correspond to them. In general, the informal names are better for discussion when the classification is unstable. Rosopsida can refer to the eudicots, to some subgroup of the eudicots, or to nothing depending on the author. Eudicots always refers to the same thing, which happens to be called Rosopsida when treated as a class. Are we really going to have to explain the difference between clades and taxa on every single page where the latter are unsettled? -- Josh
- Thanks for the clarification, but it wasn't at all obvious, with the way the ICBN names were not emphasized. All this being the case, there is definitely a need for an explanation on the page about why the ICBN is not being followed. MPF 23:16, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
It isn't being followed because it only applies to formal taxa. That's something that should be explained on the ICBN page, not here.
- PhyloCode names are formal taxa under PhyloCode rules, but they are not formal ranked taxa. In other words, they don't have to conform to certain rules such as standard endings, but there is a whole set of PhyloCode rules. As Josh said, PhyloCode names are VERY specific, and immutable. I just wanted to add that the director of the PhyloCode website mentioned that "Tricolpates" is the preferred name; I plan to quiz him on some more. jaknouse 00:09, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
