Talk:Commonwealth English

From Academic Kids

Contents

1 Miscellaneous 2 "International English" 3 Not much used 4 Grammar

Miscellaneous

The main problem I think we have here is the fact that we are talking about two different things. "Written English" and "Spoken English"

First there are two different written or orthographical systems used in the world, and as far as I can tell the standard terms for these are "American English" and "British English". Now as an Australian that irritates me, but the two terms have support in EVERY major reference source (OED, American Heritage, Fowlers Usage). The only exception I have found is one source (I forget which one, but I can look it up) refers to them as "American" and "Traditional" orthographies, and I don't think that will be popular with anyone.

Then there are spoken variants, and I fail to see why there should be any collective term for all of them - they are all unique in one way or another, and the safest way to handle it is as we have done - by simply defaulting to geography.

I propse that we dispense with the terms "International English" and "Commonwealth English" (except as cross reference terms to the terms used in the computer industry) and standardise on the following: "American Written English" and "British Written English"

Written English is fairly standard throughout the Commonwealth, so just keep it as it is, as either "American English" or "Commonwealth English". There is no need to add "Written" into the names, it just makes the names and links longer than they need to be.

I prefer English and American myself!

When talking about pronounciation... <country or region> English.

When talking about spelling.. International English and American English. -- Chuq 01:34, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"International English"

I'd like to learn more about "International English". Anyone know any sources? Maurreen 03:30, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

So would I. "It is also sometimes refered to as International English, which is while the Australian telephone code of 61 is used for setting up International english on computers." Huh?

I'm going to delete this: "It is also sometimes refered to as International English, which is while the Australian telephone code of 61 is used for setting up International english on computers."

The first part at least needs a source, and the second part isn't clear. Maurreen 00:28, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Not much used

Setting Google to English and searching on "commonwealth english" gets only 4,520 hits. A search on "commonwealth english" -wikipedia gets only 3,060 hits indicating that almost 1/3 of the hits on commonwealth english are to Wikipedia mirrors or citations. A search through the supposed non-Wikipedia sites shows that many of them also display Wikipedia articles or citations and that many of the hits which are not Wikipedia-based are false matches such as "Commonwealth - English", "Commonwealth (English)", "British and Irish, Commonwealth, English Caribbean," and so forth.

Rather than International English being a Wikipedia invention, as suggested earlier on this page, it seems that Commonwealth English is more likely to be a term mainly spread on the web through Wikipedia. International English by contrast is widely documented and much argued about by academics. I find one current reference at [1] (http://www.internjobs.com/do/details/869) to 'Beijing Commonwealth English School", the only reference that seems at all official. I have not found the term Commonwealth English in any books I consulted.

Accordingly the article is now in part a dicussion of the term and why there is some difficulty in making it fit reality, as well as indicating that differences between varieties of English used throughout the Commonwealth render this term not especially suitable for language or spelling choices or computers. I am also curious about what important differences Microsoft saw between British formal English and Australian formal English that necessitated a separate Australian versions of Encarta (but not curious enough to go pouring through article after article looking for the differences).

Possibly the term should be defined as "Standard British English usage as found in current or former Commonwealth countries or in Ireland as contrasted with American usage"? Essentially it is a nuanced synonym for British English, and nothing more.

Jallan 04:33, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I would imagine usage is different in Australian formal English as the set of literature used in school is different in a significant part. Also what is acceptable formal usage drifts over time and has probably diverged. As you imply, it would be interesting to be presented with specific instances of this.

"Commonwealth English" does seem to be a very recently invented term. OTOH, it is more descriptive than "International English". It highlights that the Americans broke away from the British Empire by force rather than by negotiation (or however you want to say it). Mr. Jones 09:20, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yes. That seems to be one intent. With terms like International English and Commonwealth English people are trying to find a single name that loosely fits Standard south British English idiom and orthography but includes close varieties of English used in other countries also. One can reasonably put Standard British English, Irish English, Australian English, New Zealand English, and South African English (and a few others) into one category. But finding a name for that category is the stickler, especially since Yorkshire English and Scots English and some other dialects of English within Britain don't fit. All such terms as English English, British English, Anglo-English, Southern English, International English, Commonwealth English, which are sometimes used with close to identical meanings don't well match the name and concept. Jallan 05:10, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"Also increasingly spell checkers are supporting more finely grained systems of spelling, not attempting to make British English, renamed as Commonwealth English, to do for all."

Now, I am a Canadian (and an Albertan at that - the statement about Albertans spelling colour wrong is completely bogus, as far as I know) and I always switch my spell checker to Canadian English when I use Microsoft Works. However, if I type "civilization" or "realize", it actually underlines it in red, so I have a hard time believing that these spell-checking systems are more "finely grained".

(As another Albertan, I wholehartedly agree that "colour" is always spelt as such in Alberta, just as in other parts of the country).

Grammar

"Historical ties with Britain tend to pull Canadian spelling in that direction; physical proximity with the United States has tended to pull it towards the American standard. As a result, Canadian spelling has tended to waver between the two, taking some of each." i think this is bad grammar but can't think how to change it. Can anyone help. 18:51, 15 May 2005 (UTC)