Talk:Commander-in-Chief

From Academic Kids

Does that make the president of the US a military officer?

No. It's a little bit of a weird situation, because for instance military personnel are expected to salute him, but not vice versa - the saluting President was an idea of Reagan's IIRC. All military officers have uniforms, but not the President, etc etc. Somebody who really knows this stuff (which is not me) could flesh out some details for this article.

Contents

1 CINC Quotes 2 Image 3 Political Implications Section 4 Title?

CINC Quotes

All of those quotes are from instances where they are discussing his role as the military commander, and as such is proper IMO. Now if they used CINC when discussing directly social issues then there would be a cause of concern, and a notable quote. PPGMD

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There is *way* too much detail on the US politics here.

Since the September_11,_2001_attacks on the World Trade Center and the declaration of the War on Terror, American media has increasingly refered to the President as the "Commander-in-Chief", even in civil affairs. This is often done when discussing the restriction of civil rights, such as with the Patriot Act, suggesting a comparison between the President and the military leaders of dictatorial countries; but ambiguous statements are also regulary featured in statements of personalities favourable to the Bush administration :

• Zell Miller : "Now, while young Americans are dying in the sands of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan, our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrat's manic obsession to bring down our Commander in Chief." [1] (http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/rnc/nyc-zellspeech,0,2788444.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines)

• Pat Buchanan : "Here was a cabal of intellectuals telling the Commander-in-Chief, nine days after an attack on America, that if he did not follow their war plans, he would be charged with surrendering to terror." [2] (http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html).

• Dick Cheney : "Just as surely as the Nazis during World War Two and the Soviet communists during the Cold War, the enemy we face today is bent on our destruction. As in other times, we are in a war we did not start, and have no choice but to win. Firm in our resolve, focused on our mission, and led by a superb commander in chief, we will prevail. " [3] (http://www.2004nycgop.org/cgi-data/speeches/files/gp97u7nje4458h0g3ieg99254l1525kb.shtml).

• "A political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief when it comes to your security." (Good illustration, since the "Commander in Chief" part of the presidential charge always comes to security , this somehow implies that the "commander in chief" has taken over other parts of the presidency -- Bush campaign line, cited by John F. Kerry [4] (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/election.main/index.html))

Roadrunner 07:39, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What about keeping only the last quote ? Rama 13:52, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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This isn't true

Subordinate to the President of the United States are the Commanders of the regional Unified Commands. This model is followed in many other nations.

The US is the only military that has enough global reach to require the creation of regional unified commands. Most other militaries actually have the service chiefs of staff in the chain of command which the United States does not.

Roadrunner 07:42, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Image

What was so POV about the image ? Perhaps the formulation was not adequte, but I don't understand ow the image in itself is POV. Is it actually appropriate to salute for the President ? I've heard that Reagan was the first to do this and that it is not in the protocole, can anyone confirm and infirm this ? Rama 00:24, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

First you reffered to President Bush, as President Bush Jr. What does the President getting saluted have to do with the idea of CinC? And finally it adds nothing to the article. PPGMD

Well, I had honestly no idea that refering to "President Bush Jr." would be so offfensive; I suppose that in any case, this could be addressed by replacing this by "President Georges W. Bush" or something unambiguous like this, could it not ?

The point of the photograph, and its relationship with the title, is that saluting is usually a military custom; the President of the USA is a civil title; thus, there is something remarkable, from the protocol point of view, that the President of the USA would militarly salute the troops: either a traditional oddity, or a formal manifestation of a "military aspect" of the function. I don't know wether I have made my notice understandable ? Thank you for caring. Rama 09:16, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Political Implications Section

I agree with the dividing up into Country sections. But the political implications section is worthless. None of the quotes you give justify your criticism. All are on Security issues, or relating to security. For some reason it has become vogue to call the POTUS, Commander in Chief when it comes to security issues, but it seems like they use it to make him sound more important. But it's pretty rare that the administration using CinC for anything other than security issues, but even then it's not that common, and they prefer the traditional title of President.

Unless you can come up with quotes that show anyone other than his critics (remember quite a number of his critics, like to associate President Bush with Hitler, so using a military title fits their agenda) using the title CinC for the POTUS on a regular basis, I will remove it tomorrow. PPGMD 16:14, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The quote by Zell Miller, for instance (a supporter of Bush, if I recall correctly) clearly gives the impression the the President would be the Commander in Chief of the United States of America, not only of the US Forces. This is naturally a slip of language (I doubt that a parallel with Hitler's title of Führer could be done without reserves), however, the mediatisation of the title seems to me like somethin worth mentionning. I do not recall Presidents Bush (the first one), or Clinton, being refered to as "Commander in Chief" very frenquently, even though the USA did take part in military operations at the time.

It is certainly possible that the section, as it is, could be perfected, but I wonder wether removing it completely would be fair; do you think the passage is irreparable ? Rama 17:04, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The Zel Miller quote has directly to do with military side of the President. He is saying that you can't have the highest commander of the troops be someone who has called them murders in the past. To me, the CinC title is used only when talking about the military commander side of the Presidency, and is appropriate. It's simply that it's become vogue with the press, and soon after even the politicians are using it, but almost all only use when referring to military and security issues. And has very little to do with politics, simply the media using the name more, which the politicians picked up on. I would support a rewrite to this effect.

I also think that the section could use a more complete rewrite, going into more detail of the US system. Starting with the Defense Reorginzation Act would confuse readers that aren't as up with US politican structure.PPGMD 17:29, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Title?

What is our justification in calling Commander-in-Chief a "title" for the POTUS? I always learned about CinC being a role of the President (like head of state, head of government, party leader, etc.) rather than a title. I know this is a subtle distinction, but I think it's significant. The Constitution certainly supports this characterization just as well.