Talk:Coal

Is there any reason for the circular lignite link? --Yak 17:34, May 14, 2004 (UTC)

Contents

1 Coal as a clean energy source? 2 Feedstock? 3 Carbon tax 4 Carbon tax

Coal as a clean energy source?

GE, along with some other corporate entities, is starting an ad campaign to convince the American public that coal is an innovative and clean alternative solution to our energy difficulties as a mostly petroleum-burning country.

My opinion: Coal is significantly more abundant than petroleum, and with current technologies the emissions can be reduced to nearly nothing. However, when I say "emissions" I'm referring to nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide, particulates, and various other nasties. So calling it "clean" basically depends on your definition of the word. No amount of filtering is going to change the fact that when you burn a carbon or hydrocarbon compound (i.e. a fossil fuel) you're going to create a LOT of carbon dioxide, which is one of the biggest contributors to global warming. It also seems irresponsible to me to say "Hey, we're in trouble because we are overly dependent on a nonrenewable fossil fuel--let's switch to a different nonrenewable fossil fuel!" It seems to me that if we use coal at all, it should be as a band-aid, as the methadone to petroleum's heroin, and in the meantime we should be aggressively and stridently pursuing truly innovative energy alternatives in the clean, renewable category (various types of solar power come to mind).

What do the rest of you think? --Kuronekoyama 03:55, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I haven't seen the campaign; however I think I can comment. Most of what you say is correct; you miss an additional key point; creating a kilowatt-hour of electricity (or a litre of automotive fuel, which is also possible) with coal results in far more carbon dioxide emissions than petroleum, or better still natural gas. Without the use of geosequestration, coal is the worst greenhouse polluting mechanism we have. As far as reserves go, the US, at least has enough coal to provide energy needs for a very long time, so that's not really a concern. What kind of climate the world ends up with if the US goes down that road is not the most pleasant thing to contemplate.

The question of what we should do is complex, and involves many scientific uncertainties, technological questions, and philosophical questions. A key one to ponder is, if global warming is really that bad, how does nuclear power compare? --Robert Merkel 14:55, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree that coal is pretty much the worst energy source with the possible exception of biomass (trees) because it produces so many pollutants, besides just CO2. I think nuclear power is actually a plausible alternative; It produces no CO2 emissions, no particulates or sulfates, mercury, nitrates, or anything, and disturbs much less land through mining. The only drawbacks are the thermal pollution of rivers (although coal plants also need cooling systems and likely use similar processes) and the long-term radioactive waste that is produced. I think our best energy option is concentrating on natural gas, nuclear power, and perhaps coal gasification/liquefaction. In terms of renewables, the only one that is even slightly economically feasible right now is wind power. Bonus Onus 22:14, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

You'll have my agreement that nuclear fission is better than coal and natural gas is better than petroleum, but they're only baby-steps in the right direction. Coal gasification/liquefaction is almost as dirty as the burning of solid coal, and "coal gas" was abandoned relatively long ago for being too dangerous.

I think you underestimate the potential of renewables. To begin with, essentially all renewable energy is in some way solar power; as it is the sun that provides energy to our planet which would, otherwise, be nothing but a dead lump of rock. Wind is caused by pressure imbalances in the atmosphere which come about largely due to temperature differentials caused by the sun; rivers that we can dam for hydroelectric power run because the sun evaporates water from the oceans and precipitates it as rain or snow at the river's source; even fossil fuels are the result of ancient life which was either powered by the sun (plant life) or powered by eating other life which was powered by the sun (herbivores eat the plants, carnivores eat the herbivores). The only exception I can think of would be geothermal power, which is also increasingly attractive. The problem with all of these solar-originated power sources is that they are indirect and relatively inefficient.

However, some exciting strides have recently been made in direct generation of electricity from sunlight by photovoltaic cells. A solar cell (http://www.nrel.gov/ncpv/spectrocell.html) built by Spectrolab in California recently set a record by producing electricity at a record-breaking 32% efficiency. Considering that the earth receives about a kilowatt of power per square meter normal to the sun, and considering that using some few square meters of far less efficient solar paneling on their roof many houses already more than generate their own electricity, photovoltaic electricity generation is becoming a viable future prospect in energy generation.

On a related topic, the Globe and Mail recently reported (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050531/IBWIND31/TPBusiness/International) that Exxon Mobil has decided solar and wind power to be commercially infeasible without government subsidy and don't plan to put any effort into it. --Kuronekoyama 06:51, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

Feedstock?

When i first saw this word, i thought it meant food for farm animals. From reading the article on it, i found out that it simply is a material that is fed into a factory or any other plant. In this case, every use would be feedstock, and there is no reason to use this subcategory. Bonus Onus 22:05, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

Carbon tax

(William M. Connolley 13:44, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)) SEW removed:

If a carbon tax was introduced, this could make the economics of these processes significantly less attractive.

on the grounds that it was editorial comment. This seems unreasonable: it is a straightforward logical deduction from the info available, and useful too, so I've restored it.

Carbon tax

(William M. Connolley 13:48, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)) SEW removed:

If a carbon tax was introduced, this could make the economics of these processes significantly less attractive.

on the grounds that it was editorial comment. This seems unreasonable: it is a straightforward logical deduction from the info available, and useful too, so I've restored it.