Talk:Cleopatra VII of Egypt
From Academic Kids
"Cleopatra VII (69 BC - 30 BC) was pharaoh of ancient Egypt."
Was she actually Pharoah?
No, this was her brother and husband Ptolemy, wasn't it?
Not exactly.The Queens of the Ptolemaic dynasty were usualy siblings (and the rare niece), to their husbands and since they had rights to the throne (and ambitions) they acted as co-rulers. The male members of the dynasty apparently prefeared that to having them conspire against them, organise assasinations or revolts or them marrying other rivals to the throne. (The Dynasty's historie has examples of all of that). Both the written sources and the coins present both King and Queens as ruling. Cleopatra was as much a pharaoh as her three male co-rulers Ptolemy XIII, XIV and Ptolemy XIV Caesarion (Greek for little Caesar).
User: Dimadick
the placement of these images is awful. Kingturtle 05:25 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
- that looks a lot better. thanks. Kingturtle 06:30 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Discussion of the movies should be merged with Cleopatra (movie), with just a link to that kept here. -- Infrogmation 22:00, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
The article is still the target of unexplained and difficult to verify additions. I have changed her list of "three children" (which included four children) back to those verified by the online genealogy cited, and put a notice about the possible factual inaccuracy on the page. -- Someone else 22:06, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I'm removing the disputed notice because this dispute happened seven months ago, and the article seems fine, and if no one's going to voice further objections... Wally 00:41, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
Why the hell is it that according to Wikipedia Cleopatra killed herself 3 days before the battle of Actium? Wikipedia is reporting that today September 2nd, the battle of Actium took place. It is also reporting that on August 30th Cleopatra killed herself. Apparently she was clairvoyant.
Somebody has mixed their milk and meat, in other words, this definetly ain’t kosher.
It says on http://www.world-sex-records.com/ that Cleopatra was, um, well, an accomplished fellatrice. Can this be verified and, if so, should it be noted? - Furrykef 17:23, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
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What happened to Alexander Helios ?
Article says : "The three sons of Cleopatra with Antony were spared and taken back to Rome where they were reared by Antony's wife, Octavia.".
Alexander Helios article says : "Alexander was probably killed when the Romans, led by Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus, invaded Egypt in 30 BC and his parents both killed themselves. There is no further mention of him."
Ptolemy Philadelphus article says: "Augustus Caesar took him (Ptolemy Philadelphus) and his sister Cleopatra Selene back to Rome as captives after their parents killed themselves (and their two brothers died) in 30 BC"
There is some inconsistency which needs to be corrected in one or the other articles. Jay 11:35, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- The correct version is the going to Rome and raised by Octavia one. I dont know what happened to him afterwards. [[User:Muriel Gottrop|muriel@pt]] 12:37, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Marriage to Antony
I moved this from higher up in the page to make any discussion easier to follow:
- I tried to tidy up a bit, based on what i know by heart. I'll try and investigate more. One thing I am sure: Cleopatra DID NOT marry either Caesar or Antony - they were Romans and like every other proud of it. In Ancient Rome, a poor Roman citizen was "better" than Cleopatra. Actually, they were a bunch of snobs. Besides, both men were already married at the time: to Calpurnia and Octavia. Cheers, Muriel Gottrop 08:40, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Encyclopaedia Britannica (2003 edition; Cleopatra article) states quite clearly that Antony and Cleopatra did indeed get married, even going so far as to cite the political problems such a union caused an already-married Antony. Does anyone have any sources that state they weren't married? And judging by both men's actions, neither one of thought a poor (or even a rich, for that matter) Roman citizen was "better" than Cleopatra--marrying her would have hardly been the only thing either one ever did on her account that risked the wrath of SPQR or put their political position back home in peril.Binabik80 17:01, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- The arguments have been very well summarized, with sources, by Chris Bennett, who is the online authority for the Ptolemies. (here) (http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Egypt/ptolemies/cleopatra_vii.htm#Cleopatra.41) — Bill 20:39, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Gay Icon Project
In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:23, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Ah, thanks for the heads-up Phil; makes perfect sense. I'm the guy who removed the Category from the page. Now I'm no Ptolemaic scholar (despite the resources on my site, the most germane of which is Bevan's authoritative book (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Africa/Egypt/_Texts/BEVHOP/home.html)), but I'm as queer as the next guy and have never run across Cleo in that context.... — Bill 20:33, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Female Pharaoh
I removed this:
- Cleopatra is distinguishable as the last of three women ever to use the title Pharaoh. Her predecessors were Nitocris of the Sixth Dynasty and Hapshepsut of the Eighteenth Dynasty.
This is incorrect on a couple of points. "Pharaoh" was not used as a title regularly until the Third Intermediate Period, and not during Dynasty 6 or 18. The claim that "Nitocris" was a female is an error on the part of Manetho and Herodotus; the real "Nitocris" of Dynasty 6 was a man. Sobekneferu of Dynasty 12 ruled as a female king. —Nefertum17 21:44, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Egyptologists vs Afrocentric
I can see how this section of the article represents an important debate in the literature over Cleopatra... But don't you think we're making these categories of Egyptologists and Afrocentric historians a little too black and white? Even if you could separate historians cleanly into these two groups (which you can't), they still probably wouldn't all have perfectly homogenous opinions about Cleopatra's racial background. I think we should revise the article to focus on the actual historical facts and different readings of those facts, without trying to make it into a battle between Egyptologists and Afrocentric historians.
