Talk:Casimir IV of Poland

From Academic Kids

I would like to point out here something that clearly demonstrates HJ's lack of understanding of the period and the inner workings of imperial politics. She continually points out "Imperial alliances", generally marriages between the Habsburgs and some other family, and has said that we cannot underestimate how important these ties were. Yet strangely, it doesn't seem to through a spanner into her logic when the very-allied-to-the -imperial-house-of-Habsburg Casimir Jagiello annexes Prussia AND THE EMPEROR REFUSES TO RECOGNIZE THIS!

BTW, I am not sure that annex is the correct term. As I understand it, several cities in the region of Prussia (which was not at the time a nation-state or any other political entity, merely a greographical one) wanted to rid themselves of the overlordship of the Teutonic Knights. They asked Casimir for help, and promised to transfer allegiance to him in exchange (they had never been given a choice in the matter of the Knights).

Also, for those of you who keep track...

Casimir Jagiello of Poland is tied to the Habsburg emperors through his marriage to Elisabeth of Austria, granddaughter of the Habsburg emperor (I think -- emperor at any rate) Sigismund. Their son, Ladislaus, benefits by getting to be king of Hungary and Bohemia.

Here's the fun bit: Their daughter, Sophia, married Frederick Hohenzollern, prince of Ansbach and Bayreuth (and nowhere near Prussia) -- their son is Albert, Grand Master of the Teutonic Order, who converts to Lutheranism and claims Brandenburg-Prussia as his own duchy. The duchy won't exist without the support of Sigismund (his Polish uncle, Sophia's brother, now king) -- and he has to agree to Sigismund as his overlord for that support.

....and then there's the Reformation

JHK

According to my archives of genealogical data on European houses, Elisabeth of Austria was indeed the granddaughter of Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor. the family tree looks like this.

Sigismund married Maria of Hungary and had a duaghter Elizabeth who married Albert II Holy Roman Emperor. Elizabeth of Austria mentioned above was the daughter of Albert II. -- Ktsquare

Let me clarify -- I knew Sigismund was Emperor -- I was not sure if he belonged to the Habsburg house. JHK

Sigismund of Luxembourg -- Ktsquare

THanks -- so, if Elizabeth was a Habsburg, that was entirely different from her connection to the "Imperial" house of Luxembourg. aha -- she is connected to two emperors -- one a Habsburg (her father) one not. Try to be a bit more clear, HJ. JHK

First off, there were 2 Elizabeth, the first Elizabeth (the mother) and the second was the daughter of Elizabeth the mother.

more detailed version of the tree which shall clarify you:

Sigsmund of Luxembourg, Holy Roman Emperor married Maria, Queen of Hungary and has a daughter:

Elizabeth (the mother), married to Albert II of Habsburg, Holy Roman Emperor and has 2 children:

1. Ladislas Posthumous (as Ladislas V of Hungary or Ladislas of Bohemia)

2. Elizabeth (the daughter) of Habsburg, married to Casimir IV of Poland and has a child

1. Vladislas (or Ladislas, which is just omitting the "V") (as Vladislas II of Hungary or Vladislas II of Bohemia) -- Ktsquare

SIGH. All sorts of small problems above, mostly due to inaccuracies, ignorance and thoughtlessness.

Casimir was married with Elisabeth of Habsburg. Who was daughter of Albert of Habsburg (an Emperir) and Elisabeth of Luxembourg, heiress of Bohemia. However, those Habsburgs ceased to be emperirs when Elisabeth was a little girl and not yet married.

Elisabeth's distant cousin Frederick III was the next emperor. That emperor who reigned when Casimir was king. Elisabeth and Frederick were rather distant. In some senses, even rivals. Therefore, no big ideas about Habsburg alliance should be entertained regarding that time,

Besides, they were more or less realists and, as relatives everywhere, tended their own interests. Sometimes interests collided, sometimes joined. A sign of divergent interests is that none of Casimir's numerous children married a family member of emperor Frederick, during their reigns.

It is no secret that Frederick would have liked to have his own family members in Eastern thrones - not distant relatives such as Elisabeth and her brood. And Casimir, who through Elisabeth had good hereditary claims, wanted such for his own children. 62.78.126.145 17:33, 24 May 2005 (UTC)