Talk:Côte d'Ivoire

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An event mentioned in this article is a August 7 selected anniversary

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In the early '90s the country officially changed its name in English to Cote d'Ivoire. Ivory Coast is no longer the name of the country, just as Burkina Faso is no longer Upper Volta. Danny

I've checked this out myself, because this is so counterintuitive. "Côte d'Ivoire" has always been the recognized French name and this has never changed. "Ivory Coast" has always been the usual and ordinary English translation of the name. Even in an English Wikipedia we can be trumped by politicians who have decreed that a French name shall also serve as the English form of the name. Other countries such as Equatorial Guinea and Dominican Republic use the translated form for English applications.

The Upper Volta situation was a simple and outright change of name. Its former French name was "Haute Volta". --Eclecticology

Some further confirmation - on the official (English) United Nations (see member list (http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html)) the name is Cote d'Ivoire, not Ivory Coast. Manning Bartlett, Monday, June 17, 2002

I saw that too, but I would be very cautious about this. How many readers would think of looking under the letter "U" for "Unified Republic of Tanzania"?

It's Côte d'Ivoire, not Cote d'Ivoire. Côte is coast, côt&eacute is side, and cote I'm not sure of (rib?). As to Burkina Faso, they had to change all the Upper Voltaic piles to Burkinabé batteries :) -phma

They were clearly a big electric pain in the ass.

cote [kɔt] nf -1. [marque de classement] classification mark; [marque numérale] serial number. -2. FIN quotation. -3. [popularité] rating. -4. [niveau] level; ~ d'alerte [de cours d'eau] danger level; fig crisis point. --Larousse de poche

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I've merged Cote d'Ivoire into this page (with the title spelled correctly), but I'm too lazy to rename all the CIA-based X-of pages, which eventually need to be rewritten anyway. --Brion

I suppose the re-write is for next year, for now, I moved them Docu

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The "US has been trying to destabilize for years" stuff is interesting, but leave it out if you can't document it.

Contents

1 name 2 Motto 3 Back to English 4 Archive of Page History 5 The real reason? 6 Consensus and unilateral un-doing 7 Wikipedia Policy and Poll 8 Our duty as Encyclopedia writers 9 Politics of name changes 10 Muslims

name

Wikipedia:naming conventions (use English) suggests we should use Ivory Coast rather than the French. Dunc|☺ 13:25, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree it is a bad idea to call it Côte d'Ivoire, do we call Germany Germany or do we call it Deutschland? I think we call it by the English name: Germany. We should call Côte d'Ivoire by its English name: Ivory Coast, since this is the English Wikipedia. --ShaunMacPherson 17:04, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

That claim has some merit. But if we follow that logic, shouldn't the article for the city of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho be renamed to Alene's Heart, Idaho? Or San Francisco to "Saint Francis", California? Of course not. The name Canada is simply a corrupted spelling of kanata, which is a Huron word meaning "village" or "meeting place", but we don't translate that either. All of these non-English originating words have been accepted in English as the name of the places they refer to, even though they could be translated from their original language into English. The nation of Côte d'Ivoire has asked the rest of the world to refer to them as Côte d'Ivoire, and not to translate their name. The US State Department even refers to them as Côte d'Ivoire. I don't see why we shouldn't honor Côte d'Ivoire's request. It would be different if they had never asked. --Steggall 20:42, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The issue is in the renaming. Coeur d'Alene shouldn't be renamed, because it is known as Coeur d'Alene in English. With Ivory Coast, it is the other way around: to call it Côte d'Ivoire is to rename it. The decision of the government of that country was absurd. I understand why many like to respect the decision, given its origin, but it is still absurd. Confusion in international fora? What about China? Are we to call it 中国? Would anyone know to pronounce this Zhōngguó? Côte d'Ivoire is rather hard to spell and pronounce correctly for non-French speakers. "Ivory Coast" is well established and clear for all. Chameleon 22:09, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

A country isn't allowed to rename itself? Other countries have renamed themselves in the past and their changes have been accepted. Thailand, Zaire, Belize, and Surinam are all new names of countries. Should we have ignored their name changes because their previous names were well established? What if Côte d'Ivoire changed its name to "Wobbleonia"? Should we continue to call it by it's previous name simply because it was well established? People seem to have a problem because the name Côte d'Ivoire is a direct translation of how it is/was known in English. Steggall 00:09, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The BBC are using Ivory Coast http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/country_profiles/1043014.stm Dunc|☺ 22:45, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"A country isn't allowed to rename itself?" Of course they are, but that's not what Ivory Coast did. They tried to dictate the translation of their name into another language. Côte d'Ivoire is a French name for the country and has not changed. Ivory Coast is and always has been the English translation. If Congress declares that their country is United States, not Etats Unis, then the French-speaking world should be free to ignore such a silly declaration as well. Also, a quick scan of this article reveals that most, though not all, other Wikipedias have this article in a local language. Also, does this declaration by the govt of Ivory Coast apply to languages other than English and French? Do Arabic, Russian, and Chinese writers have to switch to a Latin alphabet when referring to this country? --Polynova 23:10, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

We've had an enormous discussion over whether "official" renamings should be treated as authoritative before, and the consensus was that they shouldn't, and that governments don't have any authority to dictate how English speakers use their language. We don't translate things into English, we use the form that is used by English speakers, which in this case is clearly "Ivory Coast". Talking about "Coeur d'Alene" is irrelevant, since English speakers call it that. Proteus (Talk) 14:05, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If the U.S. State Department calls it by the french name, that is the kind of indication we are looking for. How about other big organizations? I think the French is catching on and there's no need to be obstinate, except that the spelling is an obstacle. Tough call. Tom - Talk 23:06, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

The CIA calls it Cote d'Ivoire (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iv.html). The circumflex should go though. It doesn't matter what "cote" means in French. We're writing in English, in which circumflexes are an affectation.Dr Zen 02:12, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I feel inclined to note here that I had not read this talk page or the article history when I edited the article to put Côte d'Ivoire first, and I really didn't mean to step on a controversial issue without any discussion. Reading the article, and the note about the name, it just seemed like an obvious edit to make. Although I probably wouldn't have messed with it had I seen this discussion, I do stand by my edit: It definitely makes more sense to use their official name, especially since the U.S. government does so. [[User:Leif|]] 01:15, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Motto

Can someone verify that the motto is correct? It seems fishy to me. 68.162.73.121 00:52, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This PDF (http://www.theglobalfund.org/search/docs/2CIVH_224_0_fullF.pdf) seems to confirm that the motto is Union-Discipline-Travail which means "Unity" (or "Union"), "Discipline", "Labour" (or "work"). Chameleon 09:13, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Back to English

According to the article, most English speakers refer to it as "Ivory Coast" (with or without the initial article: "The Ivory Coast"). Despite the government's request or dictate that the "name cannot be translated".

Wikipedia is under no obligation to take sides in naming disputes, and clearly Cote d'Ivoire or Ivory Coast is trying to MAKE other people take its side.

Until English usage starts following the "Cote" version, I think we ought to stick to our guns: we do NOT take sides in naming disputes; we do NOT try to set an example by promoting "correct" (or politically correct) usage. We simply go with the flow and employ the most common usage -- which is Ivory Coast.

So I'm moving the article (back) from Côte d'Ivoire to Ivory Coast. The usage note in section 8 of the article will explain everything to readers, in case they think we are "bucking the trend".

This is not the international Wikipedia (we decided not to have one) - but the English-Language Wikipedia. --user:Ed Poor (talk) 20:21, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

Archive of Page History

(cur) (last) 06:16, Jun 17, 2002 Danny (redirected back to Cote d'Ivoire--see Talk)
(cur) (last) 14:42, Mar 14, 2002 Eclecticology (*This is a perfectly valid English name for the country)
(cur) (last) 14:30, Mar 14, 2002 Eclecticology
(cur) (last) 15:51, Feb 25, 2002 Conversion script m (Automated conversion)

The real reason?

Because of the disorder this could allegedly produce in international fora, in October 1985 the government requested that the country be known as Côte d'Ivoire in every language.

This insinuates that the government's stated reason is the real reason. But another possibility is that they are feeling out their strength: let's see if we can MAKE everyone do what we say.

I'd purely LOVE to see a Wikipedia article on national name changes. What motivates governments to rename their countries? I can understand changes from "Germany" to "Republic of Germany", but why change "Upper Volta" to "Burkina Faso" or "Rhodesia" to "Zimbabwe"?

Are they trying to assert their own identity and throw off the vestiges of colonialism? (Not that I'm against this, I'm just asking.) --user:Ed Poor (talk) 20:47, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

The country's present name is Côte d'Ivoire. Most people who say "Ivory Coast" do it out of sheer ignorance. There aren't many who know the name was changed and knowingly defy it by saying Ivory Coast. An encyclopaedia should enlighten the reader, not dumb down to his ignorance. Anyone looking for "Ivory Coast" will be redirected here without a problem. Gzornenplatz 22:31, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

I've come here through request for comments. To me it seems likely English speaking people will type and wikify "Ivory Coast". However, if Cote D'Ivore is the version preferred by its government, that's really the place it should be. I agree a redirect from Ivory Coast to this article is indeed the best solution. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|^(talk)]] 09:50, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

I also agree. Folks in Ghana (next door to Côte d'Ivoire, anglophone) also call it by that name. Wizzy 10:02, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

RFC reply. Cote d'Ivoire (without circumflex) seems to gain usage in official documents and many news sources worldwide since the Ivorean government announcement. So maybe in a few years it will come to dominate; in the mean time there's the argument that the French is in some sense more correct. (But at least "Ivory Coast" is a direct translation; I just lost the argument that East Germany should be housed at the correct English version, German Democratic Republic, on the basis of Wiki always using the most common English term full stop. See Wikipedia:Requested_moves Dec 14.) Rd232 14:59, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Consensus and unilateral un-doing

The consensus of this talk page is that calling the country "Ivory Coast" is in accordance with English Wikipedia policy. I have moved the article to Ivory Coast twice, and someone has surreptitiously moved it back twice. I don't know how to find out who did this, but I wish they would discuss their plan with others instead of taking unilateral, secretive action. --user:Ed Poor (talk) 18:44, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

Where do you see such a consensus? I see that Leif, Mgm, and Wizzy have agreed with me. Assuming a consensus is at least 80%, that would require 16 people agreeing with your view. Where are they? I'm also surprised that a veteran like you doesn't know how to find out who moved a page - just look at the page history of the redirect. Gzornenplatz 20:51, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

There is no consensus. And you arguments for moving the page to Ivory Coast make as much sense as moving United States to America. I wish I could say it was the first time your insularity has shown itself - Xed 22:32, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia Policy and Poll

Current wikipedia policy: Geographic articles should be named after what most English speakers would call them, even if that is different than the official English spelling. The official English spelling should still be mentioned in the article.

This policy was recently reaffirmed in a poll. --user:Ed Poor (talk) 18:49, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

Not if it's essentially a mistake, as opposed to a conscious decision. We also use diacritics, even though "most English speakers" tend to ignore them completely. Gzornenplatz 20:51, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

There is no consensus on using diacritic marks. A lot of people want to avoid using them in cases where most English speakers would not use them. (The macrons in Japanese names are a perfect example for all the Europeans here - how many of you know how to write Junichiro Koizumi's name with them? I use this because it's a far fairer example than the diacritics in your own languages, which of course you know.) Noel (talk) 04:14, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Our duty as Encyclopedia writers

1. We are an English-language encyclopedia, so we should call everything by whatever most English-speakers call it.
2. If this differs from something's "official name", we of course should discuss this difference as much as necessary to "enlighten" readers about it.

The country's present name is Côte d'Ivoire.

Not exactly. To be precise, the country's official English-language name is the French phrase Côte d'Ivoire. The article points out that the country wishes for its name NOT to be translated into English (or any other language).

No, it's the official name in all languages. And it being originally French is as irrelevant as the fact that Ecuador or El Salvador are originally Spanish phrases - they are the universal names of countries which you can't translate at will to "Equator" or "The Saviour". The only difference is that this universality of the name Côte d'Ivoire has only been introduced in 1985, and people are always slow to follow such changes. Gzornenplatz 20:51, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

Most people who say "Ivory Coast" do it out of sheer ignorance.

No need to be insulting. But if you would like to cite an authority who makes that point, please add it to the article: Prof. Vusette "Stu" Peed branded as "ignorant" anyone who would refer to "our beloved country" by anything other than its French name (source: Newsweek, August 4, 2003)

That's not an insult, it's just obvious that most people who say "Ivory Coast" are ignorant about this specific fact (doesn't mean they are generally ignorant people). Gzornenplatz 20:51, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

There aren't many who know the name was changed and knowingly defy it by saying Ivory Coast.

It's not a matter of defiance -- at least not on our part. Our policy is simply to go along with the majority of English speakers. Letting advocates (such as the US State Department, the United Nations, or even the country itself) tell us what to do is allowing THEM to dictate our policy. Well, Wikipedia is independent.

An encyclopaedia should enlighten the reader, not dumb down to his ignorance.

Sure, and that's why the 2nd paragraph refers readers to the naming issue in section 8. If you want, you can move the naming issue up to section 1 (right after the intro). If you think our readers are so dumb that they can't follow a link - or that they're in such dire need of enlightenment, then make a little more effort. But don't HIDE the fact that the country is STILL best known in the English-speaking world by the translated term "Ivory Coast" -- because that would PERPETUATE the kind of ignorance we're trying to eliminate.

I don't want to hide anything. We may write something like "(still often called Ivory Coast in English)". Gzornenplatz 20:51, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

Anyone looking for "Ivory Coast" will be redirected here without a problem.

It's just as easy to send them directly to the Ivory Coast article, and they won't be confused by the redirect notice. Anyone who cares about the country's official name (and their policy that no one ought to translate it) can obtain that info from the article. If the politically correct name of the country is the most important thing about the country, then by all means put this in the first paragraph.

• Ivory Coast (official name: Côte d'Ivoire) is a country in West Africa. In the year #### the government issued an edict forbidding foreigners from translating the name into their local languages and specifying that its French name is also its official English name. The UN and the US state department have followed suit, but the majority of English speakers still call it Ivory Coast.

I don't think the name is the most important thing, so I'd prefer to see this info in the 1st or 2nd section FOLLOWING the intro. However, I'm easy-going. If it has to go in the intro paragraph, so be it. --user:Ed Poor (talk) 19:10, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

I think it belongs in the intro - it is good where it is. I (personally) would prefer it at Côte d'Ivoire, but I do not care that much. It (somehow, and not just here) is an issue, and should be addressed early. Wizzy 19:46, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

I agree that regardless of which name is first, the ambiguity needs to be addressed in the first sentence to let people looking for either name know they've found the right article. And I still think it makes more sense to use the country's official name first, but I won't revert it again without a clear consensus on this talk page. [[User:Leif|]] 21:17, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Politics of name changes

I guess I'm going to have to do a Will Rogers on this one: he said he'd rather be right than be president. I'm going to defend Wikipedia policy, as laid out by founders Jimbo and Larry (and shaped by discussions and votes) -- even if causes me to "lose" the arbcom election. "I'd rather be right than be part of a committee."

Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English) says:

• Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English than the anglicized form. If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article . . .

Note that this means Côte d'Ivoire should redirect to the Ivory Coast article, which should begin something like this:

Ivory Coast (official name: Côte d'Ivoire) is a country . . .

I would also suggest that we find a way to satisfy those who really care about the request of Ivory Coast that non-Ivoirians refrain from translating the country's name into other languages. A note about this request (in the body of the article) would suffice, I think.

Also, thinking about this over the weekend I may have had an insight. Perhaps some contributors feel that by placing the Ivory Coast article on the Ivory Coast page somehow endorses the English tranlation as some sort of preferred usage. Well, it doesn't. It is simply Wikipedia policy to "name our pages in English ... unless the native form is more commonly used in English". (No one is suggesting to translate "Los Angeles" to "The Angels"; why? because the Spanish form is more commonly used in English.)

Now I'm going to go look for the page where this was all voted on a few months back. Then I'll cite that page, move the article back to its proper English title once more. If a minority insist on going against both (A) Wikipedia policy and (B) the vote re-affirming that policy, then I guess this will become a case for the arbcom. --user:Ed Poor (talk) 16:02, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

Oops, no I'm not: I could not find the page with the vote (did I imagine it?). So I guess we have to go through the whole process again. The question is: shall the English Wikipedia set its own standards for article titles, or should it bow to the will of various official entities such as the United Nations, selected "leading nations", and/or whatever a specific government says? If it's the latter, I fear a slippery slope where Wikipedia takes it upon itself to settle disputes much more serious than names; I would personally prefer the Wikipedia to stay out of all disputes and instead stand back and DESCRIBE these disputes with Olympian detachment. --user:Ed Poor (talk) 16:28, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming policy poll is probably what you're looking for. It's worth noting that the "Not at issue - the poll does not apply to these" section was never part of the vote, and most of the entries were added late in the day by proponents of the losing side when it became apparent that they would lose, in an attempt to exempt those pages from the implications of the vote. The statement "I agree with current wikipedia policy. Geographic articles should be named after what most English speakers would call them, even if that is different than the official English spelling. The official English spelling should still be mentioned in the article." is what is relevant, as it is what was being voted on, not the lists above it. Proteus (Talk) 17:01, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Proteus. I see the vote went 45 to 18 in favor of policy, i.e., "Geographic articles should be named after what most English speakers would call them, even if that is different than the official English spelling. The official English spelling should still be mentioned in the article." Therefore I will move Cote D'Ivoire back to Ivory Coast one more time. --user:Ed Poor (talk) 21:22, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

I think that policy should be interpreted to apply to distinguishing among arguably correct names. If a poll were to show that a majority of English speakers misspelled the state next to Alabama as Missisippi, I don't think we'd move the article there, with Mississippi reduced to a redirect. It seems that "Ivory Coast" is no longer a correct name. I favor putting the article at Côte d'Ivoire. What I feel more strongly about is the point made above by Leif: that "regardless of which name is first, the ambiguity needs to be addressed in the first sentence to let people looking for either name know they've found the right article." A model to follow is found at Myanmar. (Incidentally, Ed, it wouldn't surprise me if most English speakers still call the place "Burma". If so, would your reasoning call for moving that article?) JamesMLane 19:18, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

One of the main articles that caused that poll was Calcutta, which is in exactly the same situation as the Ivory Coast - the Indian government has decreed that its official English name is "Kolkata", but most English speakers still call it "Calcutta". The poll decided that it should be at the latter. And most English speakers call Myanmar "Myanmar" (except, of course, in historical contexts). Proteus (Talk) 10:55, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Since there is some amount of dispute as to whether or not the poll in question relates to this article, I would recomend that a new poll is created specifically for this article. Also, I think that a major quesiton is do more Wikipedia articles link to here through Ivory Coast or through Côte d'Ivoire? -KalevTait 23:06, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Far, far more link to Côte d'Ivoire, See [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Ivory_Coast) and [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=C%f4te_d%27Ivoire) - Xed 23:38, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Using the criteria for Calcutta, and others of mine, Google says:

• 3,060,000 English pages for "Cote d Ivoire".
• 4,490,000 English pages for "Ivory Coast".
• CIA - The World Factbook -- Cote d'Ivoire
• BBC News - 1,124 results for "Ivory Coast", 72 results for "Cote d'Ivoire"
• Allafrica.com (news aggregator) - Cote d'Ivoire
• 154 from Google site:wikipedia.org for "Ivory Coast".
• 96 from Google site:wikipedia.org for "Cote d'Ivoire"

So - it seems Ivory Coast is ahead by a nose. It is possible it will slide to Cote d'Ivoire - but maybe we should not pre-judge ? Wizzy 11:32, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

Searching google for "Cote d'Ivoire" or "Côte d'Ivoire" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=+%22Cote+d%27Ivoire%22+OR+%22C%C3%B4te+d%27Ivoire%22&btnG=Search) gets 4,620,000, beating "Ivory Coast" by a slim margin. - Xed 22:58, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

First of all, redirects are cheap, so no matter what some types into Wikipedia's Search Field, whether it is Côte d'Ivoire, Cote d'Ivoire, or Ivory Coast, the person is still going to end up at the same article. So in a way, all of this argument is meaningless except as symbolism. But as can be seen from way too many edit wars on the Wikipedia on how to title the articles of various cities and countries, that symbolism is important to quite a few people. I can see why the symbolism is important to someone living in a region, and to partisans involved in disputes in those regions. What I have been totally unable to fathom is why using an English-language version for the name of a city or country is so absolutely important for anyone who has no other connection to the region.

In my opinion, the English-language Wikipedia is not, and really has never been just an English-language encyclopedia. Instead, just as English is the primary language for international commerce, for science, for other academic subjects, and for aviation, the English-language Wikipedia is an International encyclopedia that is written in the English language. That is the reason that there are numerous users on the Wikipedia whose primary language is not English, but they have still chosen to spend most of their time and effort editing articles in the English-language Wikipedia. Because of that, I think that we need to go out of way to show some sensitivity to things like the issue of naming cities, countries, and also to the naming of people. Since the country has asked that Côte d'Ivoire be used, why shouldn't the primary title of the article be Côte d'Ivoire? I can still type in Ivory Coast and still end up at the same place. The other reason to use Côte d'Ivoire is that it is the most accurate description of the country. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 13:36, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I totally agree. Some people feel strongly about the correct name being used, and the most common can redirect to it; redirects are cheap. (NB The commonly-cited example of Los Angeles/The Angels is a complete red herring - the latter is neither correct (local/official usage) nor common.) Rd232 15:07, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

See Naming conventions (country names), a page that (once developed) will hopefully clarify the matter and prevent unnecessary future debate. Rd232 13:25, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Some people here have stated that most english speakers call it Ivory Coast. Is there any objective evidence to support that belief? Or is it just based on personal experience/anecdote? Just wondering. My own subjective belief and experience (being doing research in and around African issues for about 15 years) is that most anglophones call it Côte d'Ivoire, but are not confused by 'Ivory Coast'. To my ears it sounds as obsolete as 'Gold Coast' instead of Ghana.

--Mount Pleasant 00:40, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I don't want to get involved in the name controversy, however, since Côte d'Ivoire is used, could someone include a pronounciation key? I, and probably most English speakers, don't speak French, and I believe it is common for many countries' articles with non-English names to include pronounciation guides. Anyway, thanks for any help. --Dmcdevit 20:27, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Muslims

I don't think it's a good idea to to consider people from the north of Côte d'Ivoire as "Muslim". It's a fact that Alassane Ouattara and the rebellion leaders are Muslim. However, what I notice first is that they are of Burkinabé origins. To be accurate they are Mossis. Even if I have no statitistics the Mossis are well divided in Christian (mostly catholic but there's a significative protestan minority) and Muslim. There's no evidence of a conflict between religious communities in Burkina Faso. As of today it seems that there is a majority of people originating from Burkina Faso in northern Côte d'Ivoire and the majority of them are Mossis. I think they are many Christians among the supporters of the Rebels. IMO religion is not the key. The clash is between "Real Ivorian" vs "immigrants" and between very different political cultures. Burkina Faso balanced between Socialism/Marxism and occidental democracy while Houphouët-Boigny ruled Côte d'Ivoire with an iron hand and relying heavily on traditional chieftains. Even if Houphouët-Boigny was known in the West as the "Sage of Africa" it was perceveived as archaïc by most Burkinabé and people of Burkinabé origins. Ericd 11:08, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)