Talk:Bagua zhang

From Academic Kids

This is a very narrow view (only Xie Peiqi's version). The translations 'Pakua Hand Movements' and 'Pakua Circular Dance' are also pretty strange.

Also, should this be Bagua? Bagua zhang? Baguazhang? How do we separate this?

Finally, dragons, phoenixes, and especially unicorns seem out of place here. While 'dragon' and 'phoenix' are often (mis)translated from 'long' and 'fenghuang,' unicorn is not often used as a translation of qilin (kirin) anymore. Edededed 06:53, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I agree, some of those alternate translations just seem confusing to me.

I prefer the spelling "Baguazhang" instead of "Bagua zhang", as I believe this is the most correct Pinyin form, and according to Google (http://www.google.com), this also seems to be the most popular of the two. Just "Bagua" could be confusing as that could also refer to the theory of the eight trigrams itself (as described in I Ching). I think, however that all the others should redirect to the same place.

I don't know enough about the style to comment on the animal translations, but I have never heard of the unicorn in any other Chinese martial arts. Feel free to change this if you have time, and it would be great if the animal names in Chinese and Pinyin could be included too.

-Wintran 18:00, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Yes, this is the Xie Peiqi version mainly. I understand other bagua systems do not contain all of these eight animals. I think it could be wise to mention those "wrong" translations of the animal names, since people use them, and point out that it is not so correct. Since the page long only contains other meanings of the word, I'll point the link back to Chinese dragon. Don't think the link to Snake kung fu has much to do with the snake in bagua? Habj 02:01, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

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I made some corrections/deletions today, mainly:

1. Yin style is not the only style that has large weapons 2. Guo Yunshen did NOT practice Baguazhang, so I deleted that paragraph 3. Toned down the writing a bit to make it sound more serious (i.e., 'ridiculously large', etc. expressions changed, discussion board mention deleted, etc.)

Sorry, I didn't log in, but it was me... Edededed 02:48, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Nice article, folks! Just wanted to drop a note and put my name on that anonymous edit, which I made before getting a username. Apologies if I stepped on any toes, as I'm new here; not quite sure what the ettiquette on prose style editing is, but from the articles I've read I've gotten the impression it's "jump right in" so I did. I tried to stick to rephrasing the prose and avoid changing the content much, being a wikipedia newbie and only a bagua dabbler... jes37226 12:00, 28 Sep 2004

The rephrasing is an improvement, thanks. Welcome to Wikipedia. Fire Star 14:03, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

How technical should this article be? For example, I could say that Crossing from Hsing I is closely related to the Single Palm Change in Ba Gua, but would that be too technical?

Pess

Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art add yourself!

Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art

This is quite different from what I'm learning...

Well, my subject says it all, really. I am certainly no expert, but what I read here seems quite different from what I've been taught.

I'd like to provide a couple of links for your viewing pleasure:
Pa-Kua International (http://www.pakua.org/)
Pa-Kua USA (http://www.pakua.us/)
Pa-Kua Arizona (http://www.pakuaaz.com/) (This is specifically where I'm training.. and I also maintain the webpage, so if you see any errors, please let me know!)

I'm not going to do any editing of this topic, because I don't want to do any toe stepping, and it sounds like these are simply different lineages with different stories of how it was passed down, and obviously very different modern day styles.

I think I am in part guilty to the bias in the article, since I early on added external links to Xie Peiqi Yin Style pages. Later I noticed lots of info kept coming from those pages to the article. Currently I actually don't know how large part of the article is Xie Peiqi Yin Style... but the eight animal thing is specific to him, right? The problem is, so few people have an overall picture of all variants of bagua! and when ten people of different lineages writes bits here and there, the result is often disastrous. Take a look at karate for example. Lots of people have written "facts" about karate that are true onely in their styles or schools, later corrected to "in some schools" leaving the article as a mess of "in some karate styles" etc.

I do think though that it would be valuable if you tried to add your version. Then we can hopefully merge it in some way. It is not so easy to clean it up, but we could try... /Habj 23:25, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Orphan paragraph

About 1796: Shang ch’uan, or "Turning Palms," is created in Anwei Province, perhaps by a man named Tung Meng-lin. Although often said to be a Taoist movement art, shang ch’uan was widely practiced by Chinese Muslims during the 1850s. It gained its modern name of pa kua ch’uan, or "Eight Trigrams Palms," during the 1870s. A boxer from Hopei Province named Tung Hai-ch’uan may have been responsible for the latter name change. (He was not Muslim, but Taoist.) Be that as it may, the pa kua ch’uan practiced by the White Lotus rebel Wang Lun in Shantung Province from 1751 to 1774 is an unrelated martial art.[1]

• Template:Web reference

This, while interesting, has some problems. For starters, ch'uan or quan means fist, not palm. It has good info, but needs to be edited into the article more harmoniously. Fire Star 20:37, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Bagua was developed by Dong Haichuan (董海川) in the early 19th century, who apparently learnt from Taoist and Buddhist masters in the mountains of rural China. There is evidence to suggest a synthesis of several pre-existing martial arts taught and practiced in the region he lived in, combined with Taoist circle walking.

Perhaps the orphan paragraph could be edited in right about here?

Dong Haichuan taught for many years in Beijing, eventually earning patronage by the Imperial court. Famous disciples of Dong to become teachers were Yin Fu (尹福), Cheng Tinghua (程廷華), Song Changrong (宋長榮), Liu Fengchun (劉鳳春) and Ma Weiqi (馬維棋). Although they were all students of the same teacher, their methods of training and expressions of palm techniques differed. The Cheng and Liu styles are said to specialize in "Pushing" the palms, Yin style is known for "Threading" the palms, Song's followers practice "Plum Flower" (梅花 Mei Hua) palm technique and Ma style palms are known as "Hammers." Some of Dong Haichuan's students, including Cheng Tinghua (who was killed), participated in the Boxer Rebellion.

Comments? Fire Star 21:16, 23 May 2005 (UTC)