Talk:Asharite
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Some notes about this article:
- it follows the convention of naming articles about the historical impact of a term or name of school by the name of that shool alone, as an adjective, e.g. Platonist. By contrast those that take an historical perspective are named by their period in time, e.g. early Muslim philosophy, those that take an ethical perspective by the religion or morality involved, e.g. Islamic philosophy, and the use of the term "Western" to mean all of the Mediterranean basin, including the 'Near East' whose history is not really separable. Culture centric terms like 'Dark Ages' or even 'medieval' or 'feudal' are probably bad in titles of articles that are not specifically about what those words mean as such.
- It references most of the important conservative philosophers of Islam in this period, and is meant to parallel the article on the rival school of the Mutazilites, whose conflict with each other is characterized along with the earlier schools of hadith and kalam using isnah and ijtihad respectively, in the article on early Muslim philosophy - a methodological and historical treatment - thus given the time focused name 'early'. For contrast, a similar article on early Christian philosophy would have to describe the triumph of the Roman Catholic view over Gnostic and similar 'heresies', culminating in Augustine's City of God. In this case the 'early' Christians would be 1st to 5th century, and the 'early' Muslims are 6th to 15th century. Hopefully that's ok, as the point is to discuss the impact on Muslims and Christians, not to help boneheads who think there is such a thing as 'early' civilization in general.
- Statements about Ataturk's moves and motivations could be better documented, but of course he didn't exactly say 'I'm trashing your culture deliberately' to the ulema, so this is necessarily a bit speculative. Would be nice to find a quote of some Asharite by any modern Turkish politician, but perhaps they're not obvious about it.
- Statement about sociology of knowledge should be better documented and raised in that article. Likewise The Incoherence of the Philosophers itself needs a detailed article with deep analysis, like other influential papers, e.g. The Cruelty of Really Teaching Computer Science or On Fairy Stories or The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences and lots more.
- There's some discussion of The Muqadimmah in the meta, and whether its framework could be applied to editorial standards, so it's reasonable to say it's relevant to wikipedia.
This article as it stands today needs to be entirely re-done.
It contains many inaccurate statements:
- Ibn Rushd is not a Mu'tazili. He is philosopher. There is a big difference.
- Ibn Khaldun did not have a part in the rise of Ashari thought at all.
- Ash'aris have nothing to do with the closure of the gates for ijtihad. It was in late medieval times, mainly under the Mamelukes and the Ottomans that this came into being.
The article also dwells a lot on history unrelated to Ashari thought in many cases (e.g. Khilafa downfall in 1924, Andalus fall in 1492, history authors in Islam, ...etc.)
It should be broken down into two separate articles:
- Biography of Abu Al Hassan Al Ashari, the founder, his life, his debates, his works, his thought.
- Ash'ari theology and thought, how they developed as a response to Mutazilis, its main proponents, and contrasting it with Salafi and Maturidi thought.
-- Khalid B. 15:32, 2004 Apr 8 (UTC)
Ibn Rushd, a Mutazilite, famously responded that "to say that philosophers are incoherent is itself to make an incoherent statement." But this shallow response could not refute Al-Ghazili's view. This statement is incorrect because Ibn Rushd was most certainly not a Mutazilite and his response was not shallow since he wrote a whole book to address Al-Ghazali's objections. "The famously responded" thing seems to be a quote from the beginning of the book. --Vonaurum 07:37, 23 May 2005 (UTC)