Talk:Absinthe

From Academic Kids

Contrary to popular belief, the flavor of absinthe does not come from wormwood. It comes primarily from anise or star anise. The production method of absinthe is indeed fermentation of wormwood, but this produces such an incredibly bitter drink that anise is added to cover up the wormwood taste (which doesn't really have much of a taste besides bitterness), and it's the anise that gives it the recognizable taste. In fact, absinthe's taste differs very little from that of other anise-based drinks that do not contain wormwood (such as the Greek ouzo or the French pastis). Delirium 02:18 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

absinthe is not fermented, it is macerated in alcohol and then distilled. fermentation is when the ingredient creates it's own alcohol (such as grapes, beets, potatoes, etc) which is not possible with an absinthe plant.

Contents

1 Try it 2 How the hell do you pronounce? 3 Some unanswered questions.. 4 What about vermouth? 5 Translation 6 NPOV Adjustment Needed 7 commercial links 8 absinthx-guidex.dex

Try it

Absinthe is damn best drink ever crafted by man. Disregarding your local laws, try it man;-) (jokingly)

How the hell do you pronounce?

Please explain --Kintaro 08:30, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

how do you pronounce what? absinthe? --Morbid-o 16:49, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Just like it's spelled. AB-synth

Some unanswered questions..

Interestingly, no discussion on legal status in US. I got an impression absinthe is still illegal over there?

Also, about the thujone content... was it generally higher before the criminalization before the criminalization around Europe?

"It is probably illegal for someone outside the country to sell such a product to a citizen living in the US." - If that person sent the parcel from a country in which the United States has no jurisdiction and where absinthe sales are legal, how can that be illegal? David.Monniaux 08:46, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You're generally not allowed to mail things to a country that are illegal in that country. If it was legal in the country it was sent from this wouldn't be extradictable, but the person might well be unable to travel to the US in the future if they wished to avoid arrest if it were something major (with absinthe I doubt they blacklist people). The same principle applies if you try to mail anti-government pamphlets to China—it's not illegal in the US to mail anti-government pamphlets to China, but you better make sure you never plan to visit China. --Delirium 08:53, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

I think there's an essential point of law here. In many countries (I don't know about the US, but I know this is the case in France), criminal law is restricted to actions committed by people on the national territory of that country, with narrow, well-defined exceptions. This means that it is impossible to prosecute somebody for an action committed abroad, outside from the narrow exceptions.

Of course, there is a different issue with gaining entrance to the national territory – which is largely not an issue of criminal laws. Some countries, like the US, vest in the executive a discretionary choice for allowing entrance to foreigners. It is possible that, even though some action is not criminally reprehensible, the US government still considers it inappropriate and bans the foreigner from the US.

For instance, on older US immigration forms (I don't know whether this is still current), they asked you whether you were a prostitute or where involved in other immoral activities. You could be prohibited from entering the US on those grounds, even if you were from a country were being a prostitute was legal. Ditto for being a Communist. David.Monniaux 09:01, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

So now that there is increased Absinthe production in the EU, many companies are shipping to the US. My understanding of the legality concerned was that Absinthe is not *illegal* per se, but instead it is governed by the FDA, and perhaps falls into status as some sort of poison. --Morbid-o 17:42, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Basically, that's right. It's not regulated as a controlled substance, it's regulated as a "food additive" because its essentially works as a nerve toxin, which puts it under the FDA's purview. So, I think the general feeling here in the US is that it's probably not illegal to possess it, and it's probably not illegal to buy it, but it would be illegal for a company to try to manufacture it in the US (because then it's adding a banned "food additive"), and presumably would be illegal to try to sell that manfuactured product here. Stuff can and does get confiscated at Customs, but I don't think there's any real consequence (I could be wrong here). You're just out your stuff. Katefan0 21:43, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

It should be noted thujone is only a nerve toxin in large doses. It is regulated in wormwood but other common herbs such as sage are believed to contain thujone as well but aren't regulated. Ari 22:20, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Interesting; what would be considered a "large dose?" Katefan0 16:49, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

according to the links under NPOV... below, the convulsive ED50 of thujone in mice is 35.5mg/kg--Morbid-o 17:37, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone know if there is indeed any connection between the popularity of ouzo and the prohibition of absinthe as suggested by the edits of 208.30.83.56? Pastis is sensible as it was created by many of the same companies that were producing the absinthe, but in my experience Ouzo is something that they serve you after you eat at a Greek restaurant. I see on the ouzo page that it now references absinthe, but that is all the work of the same contributor the information is supposedly from the Encyclopædia Britannica, but lacking any linked source. To me, this seems similar to claiming Sambuca is a substitute for absinthe. I'm reluctant to change anything, since I don't have the knowledge to say one thing or the other, but I'm posting here in hopes that someone else might be able to provide more info. --Morbid-o 14:14, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

• I've never heard such a thing personally, but that doesn't make it untrue. Ouzo is similar to absinthe in that it too uses essential oils in its manufacature, and is often used as an absinthe substitute along with pernod, herb sainte, sambuca, etc., but those are the only links I know of. · Katefan0^(scribble) 18:30, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

What about vermouth?

Vermouth is also made with wormwood (specifically, the flowers IIRC), and the word "vermouth" itself comes from a word for "wormwood."

I have also read that vermouth contains a good deal of thujone. It is also, of course, legal. This would seem to invalidate much of the comments about legality in the US, at least the reasoning.--The Fay

Translation

From Wikipedia:Translation into English:

• Article: fr:Absinthe
• Corresponding English-language article: Artemisia absinthium
• Worth doing because: Material to incorporate into English-language article
• Originally Requested by: 80.160.122.64 00:43, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
• Status: Completed -- started by Pepita 9 Sept 2004 -- completed by --Andrewgardner1 23:32, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Other notes: It seems like the French article is both about plant and the liquor but I think there is some useful material there.
  • No, it is still not complete, does someone want to pick up the ball? -- Jmabel | Talk 05:34, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)
  • I would like to pick up the ball on this one, but please be patient as I am completely new to Wikipedia and there will be a bit of a learning curve for me. There IS some information that still needs to be brought over from the French. As noted below, there is also info there on the liquor, which seems to belong in the English Absinthe article. I will cross-reference this French article with that article too to see if it has anything to add to that one as well. I will update here when I am done. --Andrewgardner1 23:32, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Yay, I'm done! I've translated ALL of the information in the fr:Absinthe article and brought it over to the Artemisia absinthium, Absinthe, and Pernod Fils articles. I suppose you can remove this entry from this page whenever you want to. --Andrewgardner1 23:51, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

NPOV Adjustment Needed

In the "Polemic" section the following sentence appears:

"More recent studies have shown that very little of the thujone present in absinthe actually makes it into a properly distilled absinthe, even one re-created using historical recipes and methods, so much so that a recent French distiller has had to add pure wormwood essential oil to make a "high-thujone" variant of his product to cater to those who still want to believe that thujone is an important ingredient in absinthe."

The "those who still want to believe" snark is not NPOV. What should it say instead? --AStanhope 23:48, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• • This seems easy enough to fix. I'd propose something like: "to cater to interested customers," or maybe even just delete everything after "product." I'm not sure it really adds anything to comment on who those customers might be. Katefan0 16:02, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion... I nixed all text after "product." --AStanhope 20:24, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Is there a source for this? I don't dispute it, but I'm curioous since I've seen "high thujone" absinthe that purports traditional recipes. --Morbid-o 17:35, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Here are two sources, http://www.feeverte.net/thujone.html and http://www.emmert-analytik.de/DLR_100_9_S352-356.pdf It used to be thought that traditional recipes would produce high amounts of thujone based on what went into the still, but tests show otherwise. Someone distillers may have not gotten around to correcting this, or choose not to because of the sales hyping thujone provides. Ari 22:20, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

commercial links

What is everyones opinion of the set of links in the external links section, especially the movie links? It would be nice to keep this page neutral especially with the large amount of vendors that have been posted by fans or the vendors themselves. I don't think videos with "Buy absinthe at [vendors site]" are appropriate and in keeping with the idea of a neutral article. Ari 22:20, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I'm relatively new to the 'active' wikipedia community, but I think commercial links detract from the article. However, maybe if a video is informative, with only a short blurb about purchase, it could be kept? Admittedly, I haven't watched the videos (I'm at work...) Also, thanks for the links above, not only did I find what I was looking for, but they provided some interesting speculations on the pharmacology. --Morbid-o 13:32, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Personally I am divided about the idea of including links to places where you can buy absinthe. In pretty much any other article, I wouldn't hesitate -- it would be a no. We're not here to give free advertising to certain retailers. BUT, given that absinthe is somewhat hard to obtain in certain parts of the world, it makes me hesitate a bit. I still tend to lean toward non-inclusion, though. Anybody interested enough and resourceful enough can find a way to buy it (I did). Katefan0 16:52, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

The videos had a very brief mention of the site hosting the videos that obviously put them together too. If he is paying for the bandwidth to host the videos, and they are useful and well done, why not let them be there?

Comercial links. For the reasons already mentioned. The site name isn't brief, the video has "Buy absinthe at [vendors site]" across the bottom for the duration. Even if the videos do provide some useful information such as a demonstration of the rituals, I don't think free advertising should be given to anyone. I would say the same thing if a video made by my favorite vendor was linked here.

Erowid. I removed the Erowid link because although they often provide good information, in this case a lot of it is redundant and some of it is outdated and wrong.Ari 02:11, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

absinthx-guidex.dex

Hi there!

I am Alex and the webmaster of the website absinth-guide.de. The only commercial thing about this website are the two banners, one at the top and the other one at the left.

"NO original information"? Oh right, only the comparison of prizes, the buyers guide in English and German, a lot of brief and serious information, the big forum, the list of the bars and restaurants, onlineshops, offline-shops... Okay, this is not in english, but the buyers guide is. That's why I linked it.

Believe me, I'm not making money with this webiste and only get some Eurocents for clicks of visitors at the banners.

So please tell me why people always remove the link.

Best regards, Alex

I looked over the sites and I don't understand how the person is claiming the two sites are connected. I put back the buyers guide. The whole site may be good but being in german makes it not the best link for the english version of the article. Ari 21:15, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

The thing with the English language is right. Tha's why I linked to the english buyers guide as you did now. But there are also a lot of English speaking people who speak at least a little German too. So it's not that bad link. Thank you so far, Alex.

I am always a little suspicious of people who are so anxious to have their own websites linked off of a Wikipedia page, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I went to the site, and it doesn't seem terribly useful to me. There are other absinthe guides that are primarily English language that are already linked from the article. No offense, but I find this of minimal use, particularly since the other areas of the site are unintelligible to an English speaker. I've never deleted the link myself, but I don't really think it needs to be linked here. · Katefan0^(scribble) 17:15, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not anxious about it, but I don't see why deleting a link without even knowing the website. Other absinthe guides? Only one, so there aren't that many links. And the link is directed to the Buyers Guide, wich is in English. Even if it is not the best English. Greetings, Alex

I have gone to the site and it is not useful at all, especially compared to the other resources listed. A buyers guide edited by a single person is far from unbiased considering he sells advertising to online shops. People know about google and can do their own "comparison of prizes"

• Please stop adding the link to absinth-guide.de. The consensus here on the talk page is that it does not belong in the article. · Katefan0^(scribble) 14:30, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

• Know what? I don't care anymore. If some of you think they know how things are going, I don't want to take away your illusions. By the way, the buyers guide is done by about 10 to 20 different people, not only by me. And last time it wasn't me who added the link. (Alex)